NEW D/C Press release - 09/01/02 - Payload/tow ratings, model availability, etc

[Jeremiah]

Re: ho

Originally posted by GBerry

the sales guy at the dealer and also at another dealer told me the samething and !

thats is that 03 will be the last year for the HO because of emissions?

????? dont know time will tell?

Guy

The TDR writing staff suggested the same thing a couple of issues back by pointing out emission requirements on the horizon and saying 2003 might the time to buy this truck.



That's about as close as these guys can come to giving advice without ******* off CD or the government environmental gurus.



I even heard that the government has been crowding Cummins to build an engine that can't be tampered (i. e. , improved) with without violating the warranty.



If I had to guess, that's what got RDR editor Robert Patton to saying over and over again, "Repeat after me: I am my own warranty station. " It's good advice, but I really think a dealer currently has to show that an improvement is what caused a factory part to break.



If the government has its way, just tampering with an engine a little bit would be sufficient to invalidate a warranty. So who knows? maybe that's what's coming next year. At any rate, I'm glad I have a 2003 on the way .

 

[VietDoc]

(first time post-- member about 1. 5 years and lurking before that)



The wife decided we need a new truck Oo. to pull the 5er she wants!! So I have been looking at the 2003 TDHO (and hate to say it, a Ford because of the 0% interest rate).



The dealers don't have any brochures yet, but one did copy several pages from a DC book. He only cpoied the tow capacities for the 3500 Quad SB SRW per my request. I will only list the TD-HO and hope the format is OK.

The GVWR is 9,900 for all.



Tran - Axle - Payload - Curb WT F/R - GAWR F/R - GCWR - Max Trailer

M6 - 3. 73 - 2,860 - 4,252/2,790 - 5,200/6,150 - 21,000 - 13,800

M6 - 4. 10 - 2,860 - 4,252/2,790 - 5,200/6,150 - 23,000 - 15,800

A4 - 3. 73 - 3,080 - 4,053/2,764 - 5,200/6,170 - 21,000 - 14,050

A4 - 4. 10 - 3,080 - 4,053/2,764 - 5,200/6,170 - 23,000 - 16,050



The 16,500 is for the 3500 Quad 4x2 SB 4 speed Auto.



The dealer said the new RE48 4 speed auto will be available in Jan 2003. The HO is 305 HP and 555 Torque.



Other info. The Short Bed is 6'3" (3" shorter than prior years) as DC added 3" to the cab. Now I can't fit our ATV with the tail gate closed (btw-- she bought the ATV too!!).

The overall length for 2500 & 3500 SB is 227. 7 and LB is 249. 7 inches.

The Dodge Quad long bed is only 4 inches longer than the Ford Crew short bed.

btw -- the Ford short bed is 6'9"

more btw -- Ford will have an all new 6. 0L TD engine Dec '02. It will have 325 HP and 560 torque with an all new 5 speed auto transmission.



Hope this helps.



IR1luckyman 'cause the wife buys toys I can play withOo.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by VietDoc

(first time post-- member about 1. 5 years and lurking before that)



So I have been looking at the 2003 TDHO (and hate to say it, a Ford because of the 0% interest rate).



The dealers don't have any brochures yet, but one did copy several pages from a DC book. He only cpoied the tow capacities for the 3500 Quad SB SRW per my request.



The Short Bed is 6'3" (3" shorter than prior years) as DC added 3" to the cab. Now I can't fit our ATV with the tail gate closed (btw-- she bought the ATV too!!).

The overall length for 2500 & 3500 SB is 227. 7 and LB is 249. 7 inches.

The Dodge Quad long bed is only 4 inches longer than the Ford Crew short bed.

btw -- the Ford short bed is 6'9"

more btw -- Ford will have an all new 6. 0L TD engine Dec '02. It will have 325 HP and 560 torque with an all new 5 speed auto transmission.

It's hard to argue with those numbers, doc. I too wrestled with them before ordering the long bed single-wheel HO Cummins. No question, Ford will out-haul the Dodge. And the size of the Dodge is a joke if someone needs a full-size crewcab truck.



But I wanted the Cummins engine more than I did size of truck. I just couldn't bring myself to buy that 7. 3L Ford, or wait for a new 6. 0L V-6 that was introduced specifically to attract Cummins buyers. The 5. 9L Cummins is tried and true, has 40 percent fewer parts, and is known as a long-lived engine (400K or more). Who knows what the new Ford engine will do.



I also got a 4 percent (for six months) home improvement loan from my bank that goes to 4. 5 percent and then follows the prime rate thereafter.



BTW, I also have a 2002 ATV (Kawi 650) that requires the long bed if I am to haul it with the snowplow attached.



And for a "newbie" at posting, you don't do half bad

 

[plntmgr]

I have a copy of Camping Life (Nov 02?) which has current tow ratings. The 2500 is from13,050 to 13,850 and the 3500 is from 13,500 to 16,300. It all depends on 3/4, 1 Ton and axle ratio, but all were with the Diesel.





98. 5 Quad cab 2500, 3:54 Auto



01 Alpenlite Augusta 32RL

 

[jimnance]

HO Engine

Originally posted by GBerry

the sales guy at the dealer and also at another dealer told me the samething and !

thats is that 03 will be the last year for the HO because of emissions?

????? dont know time will tell?

Guy



There has been a federal guidline mandating lower NOX emissions by 2004 by something like 1/100 of what was permissable. Some companies have had to comply with the new reg's this October because of a consent decree (long story).



The upshot is that the NOX emissions will have to come WAY down and the trucking engine manufacturers are having a hard time complying while maintaining durability, fuel economy, and keeping costs contained.



It appears that the emissions system of choice will be an EGR (exhaust gas recirculating) system that sends some of the exhaust back through the engine. This has been done in cars for years, but initially with loss of performance. You can't just throw more O2 and fuel in to compensate because then the emissions go back up.



Also on the burner is a reduction in particulates. This is a year or two down the road, so I'm straying from the point.



The H. O. engine will probably remain as an option, but it may have to be derated about 5%. This is the time to buy while we can get the real H. O. engine.



BTW, the reason Ford developed the 6. 0 engine as a clean sheet of paper design is so they would be able to meet the emissions requirements. I'm not sure about the Dura-turd, but Detroit has known about these changes for a while, so I doubt they introduce a relatively new design that can't comply.



If you can'y afford to buy this year don't sweat. The penalty in terms of cost, fuel economy, and performance won't be so bad that the diesel becomes less desirable than a gas rig.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: HO Engine

Originally posted by jimnance

Originally posted by GBerry

the sales guy at the dealer and also at another dealer told me the samething and !

thats is that 03 will be the last year for the HO because of emissions?

????? dont know time will tell?

Guy



There has been a federal guidline mandating lower NOX emissions by 2004 by something like 1/100 of what was permissable. Some companies have had to comply with the new reg's this October because of a consent decree (long story).



The upshot is that the NOX emissions will have to come WAY down and the trucking engine manufacturers are having a hard time complying while maintaining durability, fuel economy, and keeping costs contained.



It appears that the emissions system of choice will be an EGR (exhaust gas recirculating) system that sends some of the exhaust back through the engine. This has been done in cars for years, but initially with loss of performance. You can't just throw more O2 and fuel in to compensate because then the emissions go back up.



Also on the burner is a reduction in particulates. This is a year or two down the road, so I'm straying from the point.



The H. O. engine will probably remain as an option, but it may have to be derated about 5%. This is the time to buy while we can get the real H. O. engine.



BTW, the reason Ford developed the 6. 0 engine as a clean sheet of paper design is so they would be able to meet the emissions requirements. I'm not sure about the Dura-turd, but Detroit has known about these changes for a while, so I doubt they introduce a relatively new design that can't comply.



If you can'y afford to buy this year don't sweat. The penalty in terms of cost, fuel economy, and performance won't be so bad that the diesel becomes less desirable than a gas rig.

I have another question: Those of us who live in the Colorado mountains see 20 below zero quite often in the winter. Yet, the '03 owner's manual says to use 5W30 synthetic oil (I use Valvoline Premium Blue) when the temp goes below zero.



I always heard you should NOT use synthetic oil in a Cummins engine until after it was broken in - say, 10,000 miles down the line. Do you suppose the new HO engine is different?



Also, what about Rotella oil? People around here say that's the best oil to use, that and Mystic.

 

[jimnance]

I have heard and practiced the same thing with regard to break in. I'll bet it ships with some good old fashioned dino oil. The critical period for ring break in is only 500 miles or so.



Personally, I'd keep the dino in the engine for the first 5,000 miles then change to the oil of your choice.



There is nothing wrong with synthetics, but I prefer Delo. I suspect the reason for synthetics below -20F is it's resistance to congealing for lack of a better term. It's hard to get a dino oil that will flow at -20F and still provide enough viscosity at operating temperature.



Rotella is also good oil.



I know the AMSOIL guys out there will tell me "told you so" now that Cummins has upped the oil change interval. I still subscribe to oil changes no longer than 7500 miles whatever oil you use.

If you use good quality dino the cost is minimal.



I buy Delo by the case at Costco 'cause it's cheap there.

 

[Jeremiah]

Oil change

Originally posted by jimnance

I have heard and practiced the same thing with regard to break in. I'll bet it ships with some good old fashioned dino oil. The critical period for ring break in is only 500 miles or so.



Personally, I'd keep the dino in the engine for the first 5,000 miles then change to the oil of your choice.



There is nothing wrong with synthetics, but I prefer Delo. I suspect the reason for synthetics below -20F is it's resistance to congealing for lack of a better term. It's hard to get a dino oil that will flow at -20F and still provide enough viscosity at operating temperature.



Rotella is also good oil.



I know the AMSOIL guys out there will tell me "told you so" now that Cummins has upped the oil change interval. I still subscribe to oil changes no longer than 7500 miles whatever oil you use.

If you use good quality dino the cost is minimal.



I buy Delo by the case at Costco 'cause it's cheap there.

Actually, I dumped the oil at 1,000 miles, just to get rid of any metal shavings that might be floating around. I'll change it again at the recommended interval, which won't be long in coming. But there's some interesting comments about synthetics in the TDR FAQs... something about O-rings not seating properly if synthetics are used, etc. On the other hand, there's the Owner's Manual, which is hard to ignore ...

 

[jimnance]

The Dodge manual authorizes, but does not require synthetic oil above 0F. In fact, my interpetation is that 15W-40 Dino is the recommended oil unless temps fall below 0F.



If you keep your car garaged when temps are below 0F then you should be OK with 15W-40 Dino as I am sure cold starts with thick oil is what they are concerned about.



Don't take me wrong. Synthetics are fine, but they are expensive. If temperatures or other factors do not require it then economics suggest using Delo or other high quality Dino.

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by jimnance

The Dodge manual authorizes, but does not require synthetic oil above 0F. In fact, my interpetation is that 15W-40 Dino is the recommended oil unless temps fall below 0F.



If you keep your car garaged when temps are below 0F then you should be OK with 15W-40 Dino as I am sure cold starts with thick oil is what they are concerned about.



Don't take me wrong. Synthetics are fine, but they are expensive. If temperatures or other factors do not require it then economics suggest using Delo or other high quality Dino.

I think I'll give Cummins a call. Unfortunately, the closest Cummins shop is in Commerce City, a Denver suburb that's 100 miles away from where I live.

 

[JyRO]

Dead dinosaurs...

All I've ever run from 0 miles until ~44,000 miles is Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40. Zero problems out of my truck so far. Change at 5,000 miles, so its easy to know when the next one is due. Way cheaper than synthetic (I agree, nothing wrong with synthetic), and is actually named in the owner's manual. I love it.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Dead dinosaurs...

Originally posted by JyRO

All I've ever run from 0 miles until ~44,000 miles is Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40. Zero problems out of my truck so far. Change at 5,000 miles, so its easy to know when the next one is due. Way cheaper than synthetic (I agree, nothing wrong with synthetic), and is actually named in the owner's manual. I love it.

You run 15W40 when the temp drops to 20-30 below zero?

 

[JyRO]

Low temps...

I've never seen it below -5°F here. And mine stays in the garage mostly (usually now lower than 40°F in the garage). If it were my daily driver in lower than 0°F on a daily basis, I'd considering running a different viscosity. Depending on what the owner's manual says, and my gut instinct.



- JyRO

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Low temps...

Originally posted by JyRO

I've never seen it below -5°F here. And mine stays in the garage mostly (usually now lower than 40°F in the garage). If it were my daily driver in lower than 0°F on a daily basis, I'd considering running a different viscosity. Depending on what the owner's manual says, and my gut instinct.



- JyRO

It's already down to +8 or +10 degrees here at 9,000 feet. Our normal low is -10 to perhaps zero, with highs around 35 or 40. Arctic fronts can drive the temp down to 20 below at my house. The lowest I've seen has been -34. I'm just concerned about using synthetic in an engine that isn't broken in yet.

 

[Casey Balvert]

With your new truck plug in the block heater, keep it out of the wind as much as possible on cold nights and continue to run dino in it. The day time temperatures should not pose a problem. When running I always kept mine under 2000 rpm until the guage was touching the normal zone. And I have started it unassisted at 20 below. I let it idle until the rpm's came up to 600 but that was with my 12 valve. The oil pressure come on pretty quick in these new ones. I really don't think you are going to have a problem.



Casey

 

[JyRO]

I agree with CBalvert - the times I do crank mine from sitting in the parking lot of work and its cold out, I try to keep it below 2,000 rpm also, because my oil pressure is pretty high. When the coolant temp gage starts to move up, the oil pressure gage is starting to drop. At that point, I feel justified in whomping down on the smoke pedal if need be (usually don't, but I feel justified if I wanted to or did).



- JyRO

 

[jimnance]

Jeremiah,



You could always try some Aeroshell 100W. Do you think the engine woould crank at all?

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by jimnance

Jeremiah,



You could always try some Aeroshell 100W. Do you think the engine woould crank at all?

I'd hate to use anything that wasn't recommended in the owner's manual. The main issue is whether to use 15W40 dino, that takes it from zero to more than 100 degrees above; or 5W30 synthetic, that works from 40 below to roughly 40 above.



I live in that "middle area" where the temp often drops to 10 below but occasionally drops as low as 20 or 30 below. It all depends on the winter. Some winters we rarely go below zero.



Who knows? Maybe I'm splitting hairs.

 

[JyRO]

Jeremiah - I don't think your splitting hairs, I don't blame you one bit. Better to split hairs than to make uneducated decisions. I think jimnance is funnin' with the 100W.



Curious though, couldn't you find (I haven't looked) some 5W-40 dino? That should cover below 0°F and allow you to run the dino until you've reached a comfortable amount of miles to run synthetic, if you choose to.



- JyRO

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by JyRO

Jeremiah - I don't think your splitting hairs, I don't blame you one bit. Better to split hairs than to make uneducated decisions. I think jimnance is funnin' with the 100W.



Curious though, couldn't you find (I haven't looked) some 5W-40 dino? That should cover below 0°F and allow you to run the dino until you've reached a comfortable amount of miles to run synthetic, if you choose to.



- JyRO

I intend to check into that. According to CarQuest, Valvoline Premium Blue doesn't offer dino lower than 15W40. I'll call 'ol Robert Patton if I have to and pin him down on this.