New Fuel in 2007????

[hammersley]

Ok I think the new fuels will be arriving in I think 2007. Does anybody have the scoop as to what that will do to our trucks, i. e. will they work or will we have to buy an additive at a zillion dollars/drop so essentially they will price us out of our trucks for the good of the environment?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I'm sure it will have less BTU, terrible lubricity and lousy cetane. It will probably look like cheap watery stuff that will barely feel oily between the fingers and not smell a lot like diesel. That's my doom & gloom prediction anyway.

 

[FATCAT]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I'm sure it will have less BTU, terrible lubricity and lousy cetane. It will probably look like cheap watery stuff that will barely feel oily between the fingers and not smell a lot like diesel. That's my doom & gloom prediction anyway.

So in other words, best to stock up on diesel aditives (Standyne, Powerservice, etc... ) over the next two years before they are either banned or priced at $100 for 8 ozs.

 

[hammersley]

Worried that our rigs will be OTL by then.

Remember when the leaded gas went Bye-Bye - I think we're living on borrowed time with our rigs - AND NOBODY except us - will be concerned, Afterall all they want to do is GET our cyrrent Diesels Off The Streets - so nobody will go to bat for us!!!!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The sky isn't falling yet - just remember HUNDREDS of thousands of DIESEL big rigs - the ones that keep America running are ALSO affected - I doubt even the EPA and politicians are THAT stupid...

 

[PKleine]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

The sky isn't falling yet - just remember HUNDREDS of thousands of DIESEL big rigs - the ones that keep America running are ALSO affected - I doubt even the EPA and politicians are THAT stupid...

Politicians are THAT stupid, but there is always biodiesel...

 

[Borush]

The new low sulfer fuel is mandated to hit the market in 2006. It will be necessary for it to be in place for new 2007 model year emission standards. The EPA has regulated on hwy fuel quality since 1993 with a current standard of 500 ppm of sulfer. The new standard will be 15 ppm.



The lower sulfer will be good for our engines in general with the exception of the reduced lubricity resulting from a loss of the aromatic components removed during the process to lower sulfer levels. The new fuel will have higher BTU's and there will be a minimum cetane regulated in the 40-50 range. Engine oil should stay much cleaner.



California has had 150 ppm low sulfer fuel in the larger metro areas since 1995. Soon after the introduction of this fuel, failures of fuel injection components began to appear. These were mostly from seal shrinkage caused by the lower aromatic content. There were also more failures of wear parts from the lower lubicity. The materials that are used to make seals these days are more resistant to the shrinkage problem, however the close tolerances of the moving parts in the fuel systems will still be easily damaged without some extra enhancement of lubricity.



This is right around the corner for us since some of this new fuel will start hitting the market in late 2005.





Boyd.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Up here in Canada we have the option of low-sulpher fuel. I run it consistently and it's dubbed "Diesel Max" by the fuel company. Stuff is great IMHO. No noticable power loss, better fuel economy, and it comes with added lubricants (and maybe detergents too, can't remember for sure) which is good because I really don't have the cash to be constantly treating my fuel.

 

[hammersley]

New Stuff

Coalsmoke - Are you sure this is the "New Stuff"... . Not doubting - just wondering why they would be going through this extra procedure that's not necessary - but you folks do pay a lot more for fuel - and I know a huge difference is TAX.

 

[Rman]

Really, this ULSD fuel is a good thing. It's not only better for the EPA standards folks, it's better for our engines as well. It's not doom and gloom. Borush is right, there will be lower lubricity levels, but refineries are aware, so are truck manufacterers, standards are being addressed, and refineries will be adding lubrication back into the fuel lost as a result of taking the sulpher out of the fuel.



The higher BTU rating is definitly a good thing. Remember, the sulpher int he fuel is NO WAY, is good for your engine or anything else. Removing it is a good thing. It's gotten a bad rap because of the introduction it had and was not received well because of the problems it caused.



Have an open mind fella's this isn't all about the govn't ruining everthing for us. (though it may seem it)



It might still be a good idea to treat your fuel, but i'm betting there will be certain levels of lubricity that must be met before this product gets released.



By then diesel will probably be 4 dollars a gallon anyways, we'll be walking and riding bikes to work. hehe

 

[Chris N5CWM]

Look forward to more diesel engine options as a result of the low sulfur fuel. VW, for one, has a V10 diesel that is selling in Europe but hasn't made it to the US yet mainly due to the EPA.



With any luck there will be diesel engine options for SUVs, light trucks (1500s, Suburbans, Tahoes, Duangos, F150s, Expeditions etc). The major manufacturers have recently tried introducing diesel to the US in vehicles besides 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups but the fuel and EPA have been the stumbling blocks.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"The new fuel will have higher BTU's and there will be a minimum cetane regulated in the 40-50 range. Engine oil should stay much cleaner. "



Sure SOUNDS nice - but then the fuel we ALREADY have is SUPPOSED to be great and wonderful stuff - closely controlled for cleanliness and cetane... Yeah - RIGHT!



SO, what's gonna CHANGE as far as various controls - just lots TALK, promises, higher prices - and no action?



Hasn't been that long that Bosch did their independent survey, and in California alone, found 80% of stations were selling dirty and substandard diesel fuel - then we blame the VP-44's for going bad in our trucks - MOST VP-44 type injection pumps are made and used for EUROPEAN cars, that DO have tighter controls over their fuel - and less pump failures as well...

 

[Coalsmoke]

Re: New Stuff

Originally posted by hammersley

Coalsmoke - Are you sure this is the "New Stuff"... . Not doubting - just wondering why they would be going through this extra procedure that's not necessary - but you folks do pay a lot more for fuel - and I know a huge difference is TAX.

I'm not sure that it is the new stuff, and all I have to go on is their sales info. But, I do know that my truck runs better on it and it seems that this Diesel Max meets the new and upcoming standards. I think they are just playing it a bit more over here as being a superior fuel and that's why we should buy it, rather than a "conforms with newly legislated standards" sales approach.

 

[Marco]

Fuel in Europe

The Diesel fuel we have here has been for sveral years now low on sulpher, about 50 ppm. In other words, my truck has never seen anything else than low sulpher stuff with cetane ratings in the 50's.



The VP was designed for low-ultra low sulpher fuel!



Last year several companies have introduced ultra low sulpher fuel with no higher than 15ppm . I've used it only a couple of times since it costs a little more. MPG was the same, performance too, only difference I did notice was greatly reduced smoke.



The ULSD is needed for exhaust aftertreatment devices. Sulpher

would clog them in a short time.



Today there are several diesel engines that could meet the EPA 2007 standard here in Europe, but they need ULSD to do so.



Marco

 

[CATCRACKER]

sky is not falling on this one! but we will have to find a good additive.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

... We'll ALSO need more strict regs, with TEETH in them to make sure we GET what we are charged for - all those nifty promises with the COMING stuff is what we were also promised with what we NOW have - once again, we been HAD!



If we're gonna be charged for higher performance, cleaner fuel, then GIVE us what we pay for! And by the way, diesel fuel cetane that varies from "40-50" is NOT acceptable - that's a 20% variation - wanna bet the PRICE won't vary the same 20%...

 

[Coalsmoke]

Gary, maybe you should start a diesel truck owners petition.

 

[DJW]

For what I read, Lead was introduced to poor grade gasoline to prevent pre ignition, therefore making it marketable, as an unexpected benefit, it was found to lubricate valve stems. Before leaded fuel was phased out in some countries (Democracies by the way) to encourage the use of unleaded, unleaded was sold at a lower price, of course some people would frown on this practice and label it "Socialism". What's in a name after all? Scrum Down

 

[Borush]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

... We'll ALSO need more strict regs, with TEETH in them to make sure we GET what we are charged for - all those nifty promises with the COMING stuff is what we were also promised with what we NOW have - once again, we been HAD!



If we're gonna be charged for higher performance, cleaner fuel, then GIVE us what we pay for! And by the way, diesel fuel cetane that varies from "40-50" is NOT acceptable - that's a 20% variation - wanna bet the PRICE won't vary the same 20%...

The EPA 500 ppm fuel mandated in 1993 has a minimum cetane of 40, and this fuel has an average of 30% aromatics. Cetane in the 2006 15 ppm fuel will probably rise to near 50 as a result of the desulfurization process, however aromatics may drop to 10%. Cetane levels should be more than adequate, but the low level of aromatics and low lubricity are the main concerns that I have.



BTW, the EPA estimates that the cost to produce this new fuel will add 5 cents per gallon to the cost of refining. How much more do you think it will cost us at the pump?





Boyd.

 

[Rman]

Originally posted by Borush

BTW, the EPA estimates that the cost to produce this new fuel will add 5 cents per gallon to the cost of refining. How much more do you think it will cost us at the pump?





Boyd.

Well with the current whrilwind in place, who knows. The prices haven't been slowing down.