New guy here..........info on fuel conditioner

[gtobey]

Im not sure if I read this somewhere on TDR but the sulfur count in the diesel is not what lubricates the pump but the most common process in which sulfur is removed. I beleive is heating up the fuel which in turn reduces the lubricity. So if there is another way to remove the sulfur from diesel without losing the lubricity the we shouldent have any problems.

The process of bubbling hydrogen gas through the diesel removes the sulfur and the lubricity. Not the heating...

 

[HonkinDiesel]

Speaking of additives has anyone tried using acetone in their fuel!



Here is a link I stumbled across one day.



http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/



They say it improves diesel mileage up to 20% for 2 oz per 10 Gal ratio. I read similar stuff in couple other web sites too.



Personally I find it hard to believe! Just wondering if anyone was brave enough to be doing this on a consistant basis and how it performed in their truck.

I love my truck too much to experiment with hard drugs in my fuel.



-Peter

 

[RWWinslow]

The chemistry, etc. quoted in the article is fairly accurate. The main concern might be what is happening to the flashpoint of the fuel and the resultant fire hazard in a crash situation. Remember that these trucks are DOT approved on manufacture for using diesel fuel with a relatively high flashpoint.

 

[DBrickel]

Welcome to the site!! Lots of good info here. I've been using Stanodyne PF for a couple of yrs and I think its great. You should do fine without a additive though--- just better with it

 

[HonkinDiesel]

The main concern might be what is happening to the flashpoint of the fuel and the resultant fire hazard in a crash situation.

As you know my chemistry is weak, but I would think the ratio of 2 oz Acetone to 10 Gal diesel should not be significant enough to reduce the flashpoint as long as the combination is properly mixed. It would appear (from what I read) that the acetone does not change the diesel fuel but more de-ionizes it so it produces a more effective spray injection from the injector nozzle. What are your thoughts on this RW?

 

[67guzzler]

From that same site... .



Acetone and Your Engine



Acetone is known to deteriorate cheap plastics and other substances. While the components in a car's fuel system should be of high quality, and thus immune to any deleterious effects from exposure to acetone, be aware that "ideal" is not always the case in practice. Be advised that not all systems have been tested against acetone. Until such thorough testing has been accomplished and certified by a accredited authority, you assume your own liability for experimentally testing acetone in your particular system.

 

[RWWinslow]

After further research, etc. flashpoint does not appear to change with this minor level of acetone in the fuel. I will have a lab run an analysis and definitely advise in the future. From a couple of test runs the following has been observed:



1) Mileage increase: 2% to 15% - obviously there is quite a bit of additional, long term analylsis to be done on this one.



2) Diesel exhaust smell - pretty much eliminated which would indicate that the unburned HC's are drastically reduced.



3) Engine noise level - dropped by 3 dB at idle at 3' from left front fender with hood closed.



4) Deterioration of components due to this small amount of acetone - probably negligible - most of the on the shelf additives have also have some chemistry that could be associated with fuel system component degradation in very high concentrations.



In summary there appears to be something to this idea and the work to date appears to be fairly well researched.

 

[Doc Holiday]

I use Lucas Oil and fuel treatment.

 

[HonkinDiesel]

Good work RW. You are the man!

I'm sure we are all looking forward to your findings.



Word from the streets has it that Acetone is the major ingrediant in most of the fuel additives that boast increasing fuel mileage and reducing emmissions.



A couple of the guys at work here are participating in the experiment, using the Acetone as an additive. One with the Nissan truck gas engine says he got rid of his pinging and noticed a bit more power, but no increased mileage (probably because he is punching the pedel more). The other with an older mercedes diesel says he noticed less exhaust smoke but is not sure about the mileage, and figures the good weather might have had the effect of giving him better mileage (He is a sceptic, which is good and is going to continue on with the experiment until he feels he has a definitive answer. )



I'm about to try the Acetone additive, the only reason why I hav'nt yet was that I've been still running tests with the biodiesel and did not want to add another variable to the results. So far my favorite is B20 (20% biodiesel to regular diesel). I'd love to do B100 If I could ever make enough of it to fill my tank before using it all. It's only a 5 Gal processor. I've started planning a 100 Gal processor which should do the job. I'm implementing your idea's RW as I noticed an improvement. It'll probably be ready by next spring at my current rate.

 

[csnider]

I've tried the Acetone experiment in my gasser. . 85 Ford250 with 300 ci straight six. not sure about milage increase but it does run smoother and uses less pedal to get up to speed... I'm tempted to try it in my Cummins. . I wonder what the small amount of acetone(1-2oz per 10 gallons) does to the lubricity?. . I'm using Power Services fuel conditioner for extra lube right now..... Intersting stuff nonetheless http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

 

[RWWinslow]

Since there is no standard test for lubricity, and the amount of acetone is so small, I would doubt that the affect can be measured.

 

[GBobbitt]

I talked to the Bosch guy at Sheid's Diesel Extravaganza about additives particularly for the VP44, he liked Stanadyne and Lucas. He didn't seem to think much or Power Service and Howes, I didn't ask him about any others but he said some of them use alcohol and that was not good. I have used Howes and didn't care for it, I use Lucas and my experience has been good along with a 1-2 mpg increase in mileage. The 2002 Furd Powerpuke at work also gets about 2 mpg better mileage with it. The only reason I have never tried Stanadyne is that it is not available anywhere around here. I don't play mad chemist because I can't afford to break anything.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Gary,,,,,my experience with the Stanadyne product is similar to your's with Lucas.



In winter the fuel grade goes in the toilet... my idle drops about 75-80 RPM, the idle quality is poor, more smoke, less power and, about 1. 5-2mpg less.

When I dose the ole girl up with the Stanadyne Performance Formula (SPF) I get pretty much all those thing back... at least pretty close anyway.



pb...

 

[csnider]

Gbobbit,

could you tell me how much Lucas you are using per 10 gallon of fuel to get the results you have reported. . I read the bottle and it says to use 3oz per 10 gallons. .

I just changed from Power services to Lucas after reading what the Bosch guy said. My main reason in the first place was lube, but better mileage would be great as well. .

Thanks for your time.....

Chuck

 

[GBobbitt]

I re-fuel at 1/2 tank which is usually 18-19 gallons and I add 6-10 oz which is a little rich. Overdosing is safe with the Lucas. I am after lubricity and the rest is just a side-effect. Autozone sells it and it is usually cheaper there than at the truck stop if you buy it by the quart. After you buy your quart bottle with the ounce markings you can refill it buy buying Lucas by the gallon at about $22. 00-23. 00 which treats about 400 gallons of fuel. Lucas recommends 1/2 gallon fuel treatment per 100 gallons of fuel as a tune-up before taking it to the shop with smoke or power complaints.

www.lucasoil.com

 

[barbwire]

In 2006 diesel will contain 50% less sulpher which is the lubricant for diesel. There has been an additive (don't have the paper in front of me) that has been tested and provides real world mpg gain of 18% and provides the lubrication. It was in hard hat news. . can supply some details if there is any interest

Yes, I am interested.

 

[DanaLittle]

Hello i tried the acetone treatment in my fuel. i started with 1 ounce per 10 gallons no improvement in mpg then tried 2 ounces per 10 gallon no milage increase but a noticable decrease in smoke. then tried 3 ounces per 10 gallon still no mileage incresae. i Drive 298 miles every sunday the same way everytime some speed only differance is weather. Before acetone 18. 7 mpg after is the same no change. I am in the process of trying it on my gasser to see if if works. results of acetone in my diesel zero mpg. All fillups were 25 gallons.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I haven't seen this mentioned but..... regarding this type of additive there is another issue to consider...

When this sort of cocktail is used the top of the cylinder walls become very dry which in turn can result in some nasty side effects... for example with water/meth it is strongly recommended that the engine is operated for a full 5 minutes on normal fuel before shut down.

I am assuming this is to assure that there is some form or residual lubrication on the cylinder walls... I really wonder if this is the same principle to apply here... . if that is the case, then the problem becomes obvious... how do you operate the engine for any amount of time without the additive if it's in the fuel tank... . ??? yes/no ???



pb.....

 

[HonkinDiesel]

I have read where a fella was running it on his vehicals since the 50's using Acetone as an additive and reported there has been no mal-effects. I'm kinda convinced of that since the I calculated only 140 ml to a 90 L tank full. "A drop in the bucket" per say.



I just tried my first tank full with this mix and so far I noticed less smoke on the tail (for some of us that is a good thing) and better throttle response, (boost pressure climbs a little faster and higher, EGT's about the same).

I'm trying to drive normally although the added throttle response is soooo tempting to use . I'm still running with over half a tank left and showing approximately half the mileage I typically get for a tank, I'll get back to you with my numbers as soon as I use up this tank full. To get decent numbers I'd have to run a couple more tankfulls. We might have to consider the added traffic and cooler days now.

I think part of the problem everyone has with the mileage increase thing is when you get more power you tend to use it therefore no real fuel savings. I know I'm guilty of that too. I have noticed that when I drive more modestly my mileage does significantly increase. Part of the key is less pushing to the pedal to metal (I know... I know... its hard to do and impossible for some of us! :{ ).

 

[csnider]

Well,

I've now switched from Power Services to Lucas..... I changed my Fuel filter before going dirt bike riding. . I filled up the filter 2/3s fuel and 1/3 Lucas then added 3oz per 10 gal fuel in the tank. . Jumped on the freeway(2 blocks away) and drove out to the desert. . I could notice a change pretty fast in the way my engine was running. . I think I got a good injector/combustion chamber cleaning cause now my engine is smoother running and seems to have more get up and get out with slightly cooler exhaust temps... When I got off the freeway I noticed the idle had risen slightly but not enough to merit adjustment. the engine purrs now, even the turbo sounds slightly different. . I even have tried it out in my Gaser with similar (smoother running)results. . This Lucas stuff is great. .