Competition New HP Record

[Jim Fulmer]

Rick, don't remember exactly when you left but he installed the new EDM's and had a little more timing added and lost about 100hp. Injectors came back out and Darren hit like 750, then 753, then 754 and we quit.



That makes me wish I had time to let you try my injectors... ... . you have that phone number to him right!



Jim

 

[DavidTD]

Rick, don't remember exactly when you left but he installed the new EDM's and had a little more timing added and lost about 100hp. Injectors came back out and Darren hit like 750, then 753, then 754 and we quit.



That makes me wish I had time to let you try my injectors... ... . you have that phone number to him right!



Jim

Yes sir I do.

 

[Sled Puller]

Rick, don't remember exactly when you left but he installed the new EDM's and had a little more timing added and lost about 100hp. Injectors came back out and Darren hit like 750, then 753, then 754 and we quit.



...

I don't suppose you would like to share with us the makes of both injectors, and the number of holes, size, egt, etc? eh?

Or how much timing?

 

[DavidTD]

The injectors that made the power were Jeff's own. They are honed 370's he spec'd last year and had made when he needs them. He has a couple of different set-ups. I will tell you he put a set in his 2500 stock street truck with 280k miles with a set of Gov. Springs and went out an ran a 12. 98 at over 100 mph. Stock transmission too. He then put a S300 on it and we made about 560hp with it on the rollers. Not bad for injectors and a turbo.



The EDM's were some Jeff bought after a conversation with someone. No need in mentioning names, I think they were just a bad set. I didn't like the idle etc. But regardless, those specific injectors didn't reach the level of his honed ones. Doesn't mean EDM's are bad and so on. Doesn't mean the search is not over to find a better one than Jeff is using either.



How much timing? :-laf I honestly couldn't tell ya... Didn't ask but it was not 16 degrees. :-laf

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Dave, I looked at my head using the EDM's and timing at 24, . 020 gasket and the spray pattern was better than a stock head gasket truck un-touched with 370's at 17 degrees, now that is just these two trucks, who knows what the differences are in cyl heads.



Jim

 

[Turbo Thom]

Jim... ... . As far as I know, the cylinder heads are all the same. 0 ringed but that's all. The cam out of Darren's truck came from a skid steer loader. He had one of those crazy cuts in but it didn't work. Jeff told him to put the stock back in but that was all he could find. To me that in itself is nuts.



The timing? Ask Scott what we talked about in Muncie. He changed timing and picked up a full sec with the rail. Let's just say these trucks will not start without some help.



The 2B and S300 seem to be the best combo so for. Although the little 40 sure does spool well.



With what we expect Darren to run this year he will have to have a cage built around him. A truck that heavy rolling is a very scary thought. A 6 point cage just won't get it.



. . Preston. .

 

[Sled Puller]

The EDM's were some Jeff bought after a conversation with someone. No need in mentioning names, I think they were just a bad set. :-laf

No, of course not! LOL!! Sometimes you need to work it a little harder than a dyno can,to make the power. If it was overfueled.



Thanks for the other information. Sounds like Jeff found a sweet spot on touching up 370s.

 

[DavidTD]

Sometimes you need to work it a little harder than a dyno can,to make the power. If it was overfueled.

Gene, do you know how many times I have been told that? :-{} But it never fails after we have a bad run on the rollers, we have a bad pass at the track. So far, we can trace every good pass back to good performance on the dyno. That may change, but I can tell ya, so far the rollers have told the truth. :-laf

 

[jeff2]

Gene... ... ... ... . You know better... ..... Why start it?



. . Preston... ... ... . on Jeff's computer. .

 

[Jetpilot]

Dynos don't lie!

 

[Sled Puller]

I honestly don't believe dragracing for a 1/4 mile loads the engine much more than the dyno.

100HP drop is a major malfunction. SOP could tell that, you don't need a dyno!!!



Dynos don't lie? Right, but you certaintly can manipulate the graphs.



Just by changing the RPM you start at, can walk that graph all over the place.

 

[Jetpilot]

Gene,



Dynos don't lie..... You can start wherever you want and the graphs don't change much. Yes starting at a significantly lower or higher rpm will change the #'s some, but even then its not much. Normally when one uses a dyno they try and make things as consistant as possible.



As for manipulating the graphs, heck who needs a dyno for that... . just use your own PC to make some up! Bottom line is dynos don't lie.

 

[Teamropin983]

I honestly don't believe dragracing for a 1/4 mile loads the engine much more than the dyno. 100HP drop is a major malfunction. SOP could tell that, you don't need a dyno!!!



Dynos don't lie? Right, but you certaintly can manipulate the graphs.



Just by changing the RPM you start at, can walk that graph all over the place.

Sled

David Lott here,Your statement regarding the engine not being loaded in a 1/4 drag race is as far from the truth as you can get. When you hit OD you have the least amount of torque multiplication via gearing and the most Resistance from wind and weight.



Sled pulling on the other hand has less load than drag racing simply based on the fact you have to pull in lower gears to get the sled down the track.

Try pulling in high range and shifting into 3rd if that is possible and see what happens when you take away the effects of gear multiplication

 

[Sled Puller]

Lott,



You wouldn't understand, as you are a Ford man, but my measly 574hp(dynos don't lie!) pulled HARDER when you dumped it into 5over, with 3:54 ratio, than it did in the previous gears, and kept pulling, there seemingly was no end to Cummins power.

That was on the highway, running down a Corvette.



Now, as far as pulling low gears at a sled pull, well, your ignorance shows its self again. Thats ok, I'll hep ya!!

If you read the track right, you will pick a gear that is loading the engine properly, not just blowing the tires away. (unless you have 1300HP,as some do, dynos dont lie! then you can do whatever you want)

Oh yea, it helps to have 40,000 pounds behind you, that is a big part of loading the engine.



But even at 120MPH, the engine was not working NEAR as hard as pulling a sled.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The injectors that made the power were Jeff's own. They are honed 370's he spec'd last year and had made when he needs them. He has a couple of different set-ups.

You got my attention with that statement...



Do these 370 nozzles address the mis-matched spray pattern issue?

Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about the spray pattern... for max HP.



"honed 370's" would imply that the existing holes were merely enlarged. If that's the case... they must smoke like a coal fired train² and run hotter than magma.



Matt

 

[MMiller]

... . have to pull in lower gears to get the sled down the track. :

Your statment is true-one has to use lower gears because the load is so high.

Try pulling in high range and shifting into 3rd if that is possible and see what happens when you take away the effects of gear multiplication

If one was to do that then one would prove that there is more load in pulling then racing, cause any truck would fall on its face.



Which truck will need heavier drive train components? The puller or the racer? I believe the puller. My little old 440 will break dana 60 axle shafts hooked to the sled, but won't any other time. So which truck is getting more load applied to it, the puller or the racer?

 

[COMP461]

I honestly don't believe dragracing for a 1/4 mile loads the engine much more than the dyno.

100HP drop is a major malfunction. SOP could tell that, you don't need a dyno!!!



Dynos don't lie? Right, but you certaintly can manipulate the graphs.



Just by changing the RPM you start at, can walk that graph all over the place.

Sleddy . you are right , and wrong, if you run you car , or truck in this case right , you put a 100% load on it , that is when the motor is held at stall, and is not accelerating the engine , in the lower gears when you pull off the converter and the motor is climbing off stall , you lose power thru acceleration.



This principal can be seen on the engine dyno, at the different acceleration rates for your RPM sweep test. A motor that is steady state tested will make a given hp , at each rpm, when you go to say 300 RPM’s per second you will lose power. When you take it to 600 RPM’s per second , it gets worse. A typical pro stock motor will climb out in 1st gear at about 1200 RPM’s per second.



A few years ago I built one of the first “low Deck “ 290 inch comp motors for C/econo dragster this was a 290 inch single 750 carbed V8 motor . the low deck block was a new ideal from G. M. and we were the first to take it and run. The deck was an inch lower , making the rods shorter and the piston shorter. This was important in a extremely short stroke small block. The motor made 748 ho @ 9200 RPM’s and wasn’t any better then the standard deck motor at steady state dyno, at 600 RPM’s it made 720 , a normal deck motor was right there in power . in wasn’t until we modified the dyno to pull the sweep test at 1200 RPM’s did we find that the motor was about 30 better , , by that time the old style motor was down to 620 hp the low deck motor was right there at 650 . the moral to this story is that some motors , meaning the tractor motors we run don’t like to accelerate , so , don’t force them to . and in a drag car you can with the right set up run the motor at a almost constant RPM all the way down the track.



Speaking of that I was working on a engineering ideal for a sled pulling tractor today

 

[Turbo Thom]

Matt, I believe the honed injectors have the holes larger for sure and a slightly redirected spray pattern. Look at the bowl in the stock and marine pistons. You see why the pattern is correct for the marine application with the 370's. They do not smoke that much, as compaired to the EDM's.



As far as what application loads the engine, I ain't getting in that. I like both events.





. . Preston. .

 

[Sled Puller]

. I like both events.





. . Preston. .

So do I,

(all three actually... say, when did manipulating dynos become an event. ???>... ..... )



Honestly, if anyone is doing something wide open, I'll watch!







But we all know, that sled pulling separates the men from the boys... and the girls on the dyno, that won't run on either track!!

 

[Turbo Thom]

The one thing I have seen as far as the dyno in concerned, is the different things done to an engine, put on a dyno and tested. Parts removed or replaced and run again. Started with a base line and kept working at it till optimum power was gained. 99 times out a 100 that results was proved in track times.



If all you are looking for is bragging rights, you can to a degree munipulate a chart. But if "real time" power is what you're after, the dyno is an effective tool.



. . Preston. .