New M 60

[hammersley]

that's a lot of rounds without a heat issue... ... .....



YouTube - M60 Machine Gun shooting 850 Rounds in under 2 minutes!

 

[DJW]

hammer, any generic light machine gun should fire at the rate of 600 rounds per minute, either held in the hands or mounted, and that with tolerable accuracy. I am a slow type but when firing a M/G in automatic I could feel the block move forward and back and I though in a leisurely manner, picking up the round, smashing into the breech, withdrawing, then ejecting it, and so on and on, on it's merry old way. Depending under circumstances bursts of 5 will help accuracy, and not cause unwanted problems, jams, overheating etc. Not forgetting the first round gives your position away, then it becomes, "For what we are about to receive, may we be truly thankful Amen. " "Thou Give, and Shall Thankfully Receive. " I believe the TSMG, Thompson Sub Machine Gun fired at 600 rounds per minute.

 

[hammersley]

That's right BUT

it was the SUSTAINED RATE of Fire that was very unusual without a failure... . in combat situations one doesn't sustain 1 1/2 minutes of constatnt fire... ... failure will occur... .



see Rate of fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Rate of fire is the frequency at which a specific weapon can fire or launch its projectiles. It is usually measured in rounds per minute (RPM or round/min), or per second (RPS or round/s).



Note that both generation of heat (leading to weapon failure) and exhaustion of the weapon's ammunition mean that most automatic weapons are unlikely ever to sustain their cyclic rate of fire for a full minute; thus, it is technically incorrect and potentially misleading to describe RPM as "the number of rounds a weapon can fire in one minute. "



For manually-operated weapons such as bolt-action rifles or artillery pieces, the rate of fire is governed primarily by the training of the operator or crew, within some mechanical limitations. Rate of fire may also be affected by ergonomic factors. For rifles, ease-of-use features such as the design of the bolt or magazine release can affect the rate of fire. For artillery pieces, a gun on a towed mount can usually achieve a higher rate of fire than the same weapon mounted within the cramped confines of a tank or self-propelled gun. This is because the crew operating in the open can move more freely and can stack ammunition where it is most convenient. Inside a vehicle, ammunition storage may not be optimized for fast handling due to other design constraints, and crew movement may be constricted.



For automatic weapons such as machine guns, the rate of fire is primarily a mechanical property.



Over time, weapons have attained higher rates of fire. A small infantry unit armed with modern assault rifles and machine guns can generate more firepower than much larger units equipped with older weapons. Over the past century, this increased firepower is due almost entirely to the higher rate of fire of modern weapons.



A good past example of growth in rate of fire would be the enormous advantage of the Maxim machine gun, which provided accurate and steady fire. This was due to technological advances in the field of material cooling.





[edit] Measurement

There are three standard measurements of rate of fire for automatic weapons:



Cyclic rate: This is the mechanical rate of fire, or how fast the weapon "cycles" (loads, locks, fires, unlocks, ejects). Measurement of the cyclic rate assumes that the weapon is being operated as fast as possible and does not consider operator tasks (magazine changes, aiming, etc). When the trigger is squeezed, the rate at which rounds are fired is the cyclic rate. Typical assault rifles have a cyclic rate of 500-800 RPM. Typical infantry machine guns have rates varying from 600 RPM to 1,200 RPM. M134 Miniguns mounted on helicopters can achieve rates of fire as high as 100 rounds per second (6,000 RPM).

Effective rate: In contrast to the cyclic rate, the effective rate is the actual rate at which the weapon would typically be fired in combat. Effective rate measurement starts with the cyclic rate, but considers other factors as well, such as time spent reloading, aiming, changing barrels if necessary, and allowing for some cooling. Machine guns are typically fired in short bursts rather than in long continuous streams of fire, although there are times when they must be fired in very long bursts. The effective rate is always lower than the cyclic rate.

Sustained rate: The rate at which the weapon could reasonably be fired indefinitely without failing. Knowing the sustained rate of fire is useful to know for logistics and supply purposes. It is most often used when continuous fire is desired for long periods of time as with artillery.



[edit] Technical limitations

The major limitation in higher rates of fire arises due to the problem of heat. Even a manually-operated rifle generates heat as rounds are fired. A machine gun builds up heat so rapidly that steps must be taken to prevent overheating. Solutions include making barrels heavier so that they heat up more slowly, making barrels rapidly replaceable by the crews, or using water jackets around the barrel to cool the weapon. A modern machine gun team will carry at least one spare barrel for their weapon, which can be swapped out within a few seconds by a trained crew. Problems with overheating can range from ammunition firing unintentionally (cook-off), or, what is much worse in combat, failure to fire.



Water-cooled weapons can achieve very high effective rates of fire (approaching their cyclic rate) but are very heavy and vulnerable to damage. A well-known example is the M2 Browning heavy machine gun, produced in both air-cooled version and water-cooled versions: the former weighed 38 kg (84 lb), while the latter weighed 66 kg (121 lb) including coolant. [1] Due to these disadvantages, water-cooled weapons have gradually been replaced by much lighter air-cooled weapons. For weapons mounted on aircraft, no cooling device is necessary due to the outside air cooling the weapon as the aircraft is moving. Consequently, aircraft-mounted machine guns, autocannon or miniguns can sustain fire far longer than ground-based counterparts, firing close to their cyclic rate of fire.



Another factor influencing rate of fire is the supply of ammunition. At 100 RPS, a one-second burst from the M134 would use approximately 2. 5 kg (5 lb) of 7. 62 mm ammunition; this alone would make it an impractical weapon for infantry who have to carry a reasonable supply of ammunition with them. For this and other reasons, weapons with such high rates of fire are typically only found on vehicles or fixed emplacements.

 

[DJW]

hammer my father was a machine gunner in the British Army during WW1, his unit used the Vickers water cooled, he said very often it would overheat as the Germans (crafty lot) would fire at the water jacket put a hole in it so put you out of action. I learned a lot from him regarding life in the front lines, actually the machine gun posts were in no man's land so as to give covering fire for the Infantry during an attack, also used for harassing fire, they used to see the German Troops at ablutions in the morning, I asked why he didn't fire at them and he said things are not what they seem as one has instructions and orders. There were some quiet times at the Front, and often Infantrymen in the Trenches made friendly contact with the enemy, which would have resulted in Court Martial had anyone in authority were present at the time. During WW2 sometime after D-day many British Infantrymen I met in Britain while I was in training, they were back recovering from wounds, said they favored the German light machine gun they pronounced as a "Hispando" very light, they told their brothers to get one when they got there, which would be in a couple of months as they were very good, but to make sure to keep their issued rifle a Lee Enfield single shot bolt action rifle in their kit. The British STEN gun, a cheap automatic was designed to use German ammunition, that way if one overran a post, one had a ready supply of ammunition. That was probably a Quartermaster's Dream. War on the cheap. I've heard a lot of ridiculous stories from other British troops regarding the STEN and other weapons, but all weapons should be treated with respect, after all they are just a tool and put in incompetent hands cannot be expected to perform to their design.

 

[Jong]

Wanna see something really cool for a machine gun? Check it out!!!!

HaloMFG.com :: View Forum - GAU22e/s Micro Minigun

 

[MAleshire]

Sustained fire of an M60 (At least those of 35+ years ago) for 60-90 seconds will result in a white hot barrell that will most likely warp. This tends to impact accuracy, but helps in shooting around corners. Been there done that. John Wayne stuff like sustained fire is a good way to die at an early age.

 

[kowaliga]

An M1-a ( M14 ) was fed ammo from an 'infinite' belt and continued firing until operators discontinued the ammo. All wooden parts had burned away by that time, although the rifle continued to cycle. I dont't remember how many, but several thousand rds. continuously semi-auto fire.

 

[Boomer II]

I don't think the point is to fire it continuously in a battle situation, the point is the gun will hold up under some serious use much better than a stock one. That is a helluva lot of lead!!

 

[bigdaddydieseldan]

Gotta love the m60 it is one bada** mf

 

[DJW]

Many a machine gun post have been over-ran, by a single Infantryman with a light machine gun firing from the waist, and with no covering fire, one can't give covering fire while he's charging the target. Surprising the number that survived, read of some lately, age after all can't be beaten.

 

[Mike Ellis]

Now this is an interesting thread.



If you want to read about durable machine guns, check out the Browning Model of 1917. It was water cooled and ridiculously reliable:



M1917 Browning machine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Army Ordnance Department initially showed little interest in Browning's design, but after war was declared in April 1917, Browning was able to arrange a test. The first test was a success, but the Army demanded a second test a short time later. In the second test, Browning fired the weapon in two lengthy bursts of 20,000 rounds each without a single mishap. The Ordnance Board was impressed but was unconvinced that the same level of performance could be achieved in a production model. Browning produced a second weapon which he fired in a third test continuously for 48 minutes (over 21,000 rounds). [citation needed] Finally convinced, the Army adopted the weapon as its principal heavy machine gun.

If anybody has one lying around the house collecting dust, I'll swap ya a nice horse for one! :-laf :-laf

 

[Alan Reagan]

The M-60 or any other automatice weapon can start cooking off rounds if it gets too hot. Plus as mentioned above, warping the barrel is a concern. We limit ours to 200 rounds/min to keep temps down and conserve ammo. Of course, all that's out the window in a firefight.

 

[Mike Ellis]

Cooking off was a problem that surfaced early on in machine gun development, hence the water cooling of the Browning design and other period weapons. After men learned the folly of trench warfare and massed charges into machine guns, the need to fire continuously for minutes at a time faded away.



It is interesting thought that even a current infantry group would not be poorly armed if they were equipped with an M1917. John Browning was a pretty gifted designer...

 

[Champane Flight]

Aplication

The M60 will fire up to 600 RPM in a stock form, when put in a UH1H helicopter we would carry spare barrels. Fire until red hot, or until rounds start to go in every direction but where aimed, then grab your glove, tip weapon forward, flip barrel release, watch old barrel tumble to earth, grab cool barrel, and stick it, click it, rock and roll! I have fired over 1500 rounds non-stop on a new cool barrel. What you have to realize, is that if you are moving at over eighty knots, you have a nice airflow over the barrel to keep temps down. . We would use minigun boxes (2000 round) for our feed boxes, those puny 600 round boxes were too small. Of course in some situations we would also put another box under the seat. . Now on the ground a burst of ten rounds here and there were course of action. I have given up my spares to ground troops who were in contact.

 

[crobertson1]

Speaking of HOT, check this out:



YouTube - Burning AK47 - 300 Rounds & on Fire



Warning: There are NO smart people in this video.