new mem - more injector talk

[McGivern]

Hey everybody,



I've been a TDR member for 5 years, but just got onto the web side of it.



I have a 92 W250 / getrag / 16cm / pump turned up a bit / K&N / 3" mandrel exhaust / pyrp-boost .



This summer I stretched the frame and put on an 85 crew cab. I have about 150,000 on the truck - original injectors and pump, and it's not pulling my boat all that well (6,000#). I notice my EGT seems lower than before all the time. I'm thinkning about new injectors and or pump. I'm looking for advice. The truck runs pretty well in town unloaded (18psi boost). I appreciate any help. I still haven't read all the first gen stuff, but it's great information. I just upgraded to 3" on the rear brakes- that was great info.



I have two bits of Get-drag adive. 1- don't EVER tow your truck and let the transmission spin - it won't get lube and you'll toast it! 2- IF you have any trouble with noise or vibration in the get-drag, your bell housing may be a bad casting causing mis-alignment. I indicated my bell housing with respect to the inout shaft and ended up shimming it for less than . 002" TIR (when I rebuilt the get-drag). it's smooth as silk now.



Anyway , be interesting to hear from a few of you.



Mark

 

[chuck3]

Welcome.

I'd just like to say welcome to the TDR Mark, and I will leave the rest to the First Gen. Boys.

 

[Tim1]

Welcome aboard bud, when my diff went out, I put the transfer case in neutral and towed it for 10 miles home. I assumed the transmission wasn't turning or at least I hoped not. It seems ok now, but will remember this, thanks. Tim

 

[JBrookshire]

Been there done that!!!

On your transmission, I have a 4x4 with a 5speed and broke down with a trailer and could not get a hold of home and had it towed and it was raining and the tow person did not take the drive shaft out and 10 up the road it went. I had a friend and my dad withe me and they were in my truck when this happend an heard a squelle, and my dad pushed in the clutch and then smoke started rolling. Finlly got the recker stoped and good to say the recker ended up paying for all new bearings and a new top shaft and every thing else on the top shaft $2000 labor and parts and all, And the only thing rong with my truck was a bad fuse link. Justin Brookshire

 

[McGivern]

been there

Well hopefully my $1800 lesson will help a few out in the future.



Justin, be glad someone else picked up the ticket for your lesson.



This weekend I'm installing Skyjacker 4" springs and 35" tires - my cheap version of an overdrive. I'll let you know how she rides and drives!



Mark

 

[AlK]

McGivern,

A lot of the First Gen Trucks are using the "Power Wagons" (Bosh) or the "Prince of Darkness" (Lucas) injectors with good results. On my truck I am running the "Power Wagons" and had the pump timing changed to 1. 4 and the rpm increased up to 2900. Other than the rpm increase the pump is at stock setting. This really woke the truck up.

---

Al

 

[R.E. Miller]

ALK,

How did you get your RPM turned up and did you install HD valve springs to do it?

Thanks

Russell

 

[AlK]

R. E. Miller,

When I had Piers set the timing on my truck I also had him increase the rpm setting. The truck still has the original valve springs.



To change the rpm find the maximum throttle screw and remove the cone shaped metal cover from the end of this screw and back the screw out 2 turns. The following thread deals with this topic



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25058&highlight=change+rpm

---

Al

 

[backroad]

McGivern-I'm assuming that the Phoenix in your location is the Arizona one. I'm up here in Dewey, and have a fantastic Dodge/Cummins mechanic. He tells me that in about 75% of the complaints about lost power comes from air leaks in the intake system. It would seem to me that you should be doing a bit better than 18 lbs. of boost.



Skeeter has a patented device to pressurize and check the air system on the dodge/cummins. If you are interested in talking with him about your problem, just e-mail me 2 -- email address removed -- and I'll get the information to you directly. He and his son are just county people and are great to work with.



Dennis.....

Backroad... ...

 

[Power Wagon]

The reason for changing the injectors, is that on the later trucks, the injectors have very small holes and low needle lift, creating the need to generate very high peak pressures to force the fuel through the injectors. This does make the injector more efficient, and produce better fuel dispersion, but it has the effect of slowing fuel flow and creating the need to make higher and higher peak injection pressures in order to put more fuel in.



Your VE pump has limited pressure capability. In fact, all injection pumps do, but the limits vary. The P7100 can pump peak pressures roughly double what the VE can, if memory serves at all, and so can force a lot of fuel through relatively small injectors at higher rates.



But the VE has a hydralic head design that somewhat limits the efficience of the pumping plunger, resulting in peak presssures being dimished as well as fuel quantity when approaching the limits. As you raise the peak pressures higher and higher (done to improve emissions in many cases), the mechanical loads inside the pump reach points where the life of some parts becomes quite iffy - sometimes failing catastrophically. At stock fuel settings, the latest versions of the VE have a decent life, but if you crank it up, the interal stresses dramatically increase.



To protect your pump (a pretty expensive investment), you can change injectors to tips that have more holes or larger ones, and will flow more fuel in a shorter period of time without exceeding the engineered pump loads. This can actually improve economy and efficiency (power vs fuel burned).



Hope this clears up some of the thinking behind all this...

 

[Tim1]

Hey Justin, when you toasted your gearbox when towing, did you have the transfer case in neutral? Tim

 

[JBrookshire]

Re Tim1

I did not have the transfer case in nuteral. It was one of them broke down in the rain and lets get home deals. I new better but dident think of it. The guy towing the truck was the owner and thet was his first clame in 30 years. I guess it was just lazeyness????? And how mutch of a difference did you see with injectors and 16 housing. I am thinking vary serousely about the same thing. Thanks Justin







IF IT DON'T RATTLE OR SMOKE*******KEEP TRYING

 

[KMC]

So is it ok to tow if the t-case is in neutral or is it best to always disconnect and hang the driveline?



Not that I plan to be towed but you never know... .



Ken

 

[JBrookshire]

KMC

You can tow with the transfercase in nuteral. But never tow a truck or car {not shure about front wheel drive} with just in nuteral that is the trans. When you do this the top dhaft is turning indide the bearings and the onley way that shaft get lube is called splash lubercation, that is when it is in gear the gears throw grease up to lube it. Back in 70 internation hade the same problem but therse was the trans did not have enoughf fluid in it so they put a l type deal on the fill plug to hold more fluid

 

[McGivern]

transfer case

Ken,

I was told by the guy who rebuilt mine getrag that if you're going a very short distance and you don't have tools, then just put the transfer case in neutral. If you can remove the driveshaft, do it. The bottom line is that if the input shaft of the transmission isn't spinning, it isn't getting lubrication, so the more you can do to make sure it doesn't move, the better.



Mark

 

[Tim1]

Hey justin, I'm a little reluctant to admit that i'm a bit slow at getting my projects done in a timely manner, First was the k&n with the exhaust straight piped,a bit more response and sounded good, then the 16 housing and that made alot of difference in spool up, so i adjusted the pump like posts suggest,wow what a difference. Then came busted rear end and now i'm fixing the dowell pin(it was moving 1\8"). Before I take it out of my shop I will put the lucas injectors in which I admit I have been reluctant to do since it was running so damn good! I will let you know how they work. Later Tim