New Rotella T formulation - Any opinions yet?

[Crunch]

It's already out in bulk quanties, and the gallon size will be out in October. Has anyone had any experience with it yet? If so what's your opinion? Any noticable benefits or drawbacks? I've used nothing but Rotella in my truck since I bought it, but I'm not big on changing what's working.



http://www.rotella.com/press/article_68.html

Shell Lubricants Announces Shell ROTELLA® T Meets API CJ-4 Standards

Jun 21, 2006, 22:20



Shell Lubricants has announced the development of a new formulation of Shell ROTELLA® T motor oil.



The new formulation meets all of the specification criteria for the new API CJ-4 service category for diesel motor oil, as well as the requirements of the low emissions engines of leading diesel engine original equipment manufacturers (OEMs). In addition, Shell Rotella® T motor oil has already met the specification requirements for Caterpillar ECF-3, Detroit Diesel 93K218.



In addition Shell ROTELLA® T motor oil has gained Cummins CES 20081, Mack EO-O Premium Plus 2007 and Volvo VDS-4 approvals. The new API CJ-4 Shell ROTELLA®T motor oil can also provide performance benefits when used in engines built prior to 2007.



The API CJ-4 Shell ROTELLA®T motor oil will initially be available in bulk and drums beginning July 1st and in quart, gallon and pail packages beginning October 15th. Shell plans to continue to have its API CI-4 Plus Shell ROTELLA T motor oils available in bulk and drums beyond the introduction of the new API CJ-4 motor oils to meet customer demand.



""Shell ROTELLA®T motor oil, which meets or exceeds the API CJ-4 specification, will serve the diverse needs of fleets, owner/operators, industries and the light duty truck market, providing additional performance and benefits in wear reduction, soot handling and oxidation resistance. It also helps maximize the durability of Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs)," says Dan Arcy, Technical Marketing Manager, for Shell Lubricants.



"With the successful development of this new formulation, Shell maintains its position as an industry leader actively involved in the development of new performance categories and developing motor oils that meet or exceed the latest specifications. "



As part of the Shell portfolio of heavy-duty diesel motor oils, a new brand, Shell Rimula® Super will soon be introduced to meet the new API CJ-4 specification, specifically targeting the needs of fleet operators. More details on this introduction will be forthcoming.

 

[pwr2tow]

Motor oils are always earlier year compatable, except for very early model years, like 1930 models that have not been overhauled. Gear oil is a different stoy.

 

[bluthndr]

Heard that the current (old) CI-4 has much higher zinc content in it (which helps flat tappet camshafts) - especially at break-in. I say current, b ecause I believe the CJ-4 oil is not required 'til Jan 1 of '07 like the new diesel emissions programs...



I guess the EPA has basically made them remove a lot of the zinc content to preserve catalytic convertors. This was done in gas engines a few years ago, and for those who don't know, Rotella T has been the break-in oil of choice for older (flat tappet) gasoline engines since the change.



There are a lot of intelligent people here, so I thought I would ask if anyone knows the specifics on zinc/phosphate content of the new CJ-4 versus the CI-4 (current-old).

 

[Jasco]

In the last issue of TDR there was an article talking about the new oils. It said the new cj-4 has less cleansers in it and it would only benefit the 07 and up ulsd only motors, and anything pre 07 would be better off with the ci-4. Check out the article, I don't remember the page but it was the last issue I got.

 

[steved]

Running it (CJ-4) for around 4k now with no visible or audible differences between it and the old CI-4+ oil...



steved

 

[amsoilman]

I guess the EPA has basically made them remove a lot of the zinc content to preserve catalytic convertors. This was done in gas engines a few years ago, and for those who don't know, Rotella T has been the break-in oil of choice for older (flat tappet) gasoline engines since the change.



There are a lot of intelligent people here, so I thought I would ask if anyone knows the specifics on zinc/phosphate content of the new CJ-4 versus the CI-4 (current-old).

Zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate (ZDDP, ZnDTP, or ZDP) is a family of zinc salts of dithio organophosphates, commonly called "Zinc". They are soluble in nonpolar solvents, so they easily dissolve in mineral and synthetic oils used as lubricants. The percentage of ZDDP ranges approximately between 2-15%. Primarily Zinc in Engine oils effectivly provided wear protection for valve trains, gear trains, push rod ends etc. as well as oxidation inhibition.



Zinc and many detergents contain ingredients that plug Diesel Particulate filters. (Which will be on every new Diesel in 2007) Therefore Zinc will be a very limited ingredient in Diesel engine oils.



Due to the negative effects of sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulfur on Diesel Particulate filters (DPF's), ASTM agreed to accept limitaions in these areas for the CJ-4 oils. Sulfated ash provides lubricity and alkalinity (TBN) to counteract acid formation during combustion. Most API CI-4 PLUS oils are compozed of 1. 50 percent ash. NEW API CJ-4 Diesel oils are limited to 1. 0 percent ash, dropping the TBN levels from 10 to 14 with average CI-4 PLUS oils to 8 to 9 with the CJ-4 oils.



With the new ULSD fuel, CJ-4 oils and the DPF's, the industry will meet the 2007 Emission standards, but I don't think anyone knows how this is going to effect the reliabiliy, longivity and performance of this new breed.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Buffalo]

Does anyone know if the oil manufacturers will continue to make the CI-4+ oils, also?



Thanks.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[jjdiesel]

Issue 54, page 11: "If you don't have an engine equipped with a DPF, by all means utilize an API CI-4 oil! Your engine will thank you for it!" John Martin is the oil 'cat. ' I would go for what he recommends.

 

[amsoilman]

Does anyone know if the oil manufacturers will continue to make the CI-4+ oils, also?



Thanks.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

I can't tell you if ALL the oil Companies will continue with the CI-4 + oils, but Amsoil is continueing the CI-4 + oils, even though the CJ-4 oils are backwards compatible.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[DavidThompson]

Issue 54, page 11: "If you don't have an engine equipped with a DPF, by all means utilize an API CI-4 oil! Your engine will thank you for it!" John Martin is the oil 'cat. ' I would go for what he recommends.

WELL ????? After reading the John Martin article TWICE... ..... I am thinking about buying up about 3 years supply of rotalla CI-4 oil to have on hand til they perfect the rotalla CJ-4..... I only use my 07 drw 3500 to pull my fifith wheel... ... 10 to 15,000 mpy... ... and after I use up the old rotalla it will be time for the new rotalla... ... I spoke to my oil jobber today after he had drop 400 gallons rotalla just last week to ask if it was CI or CJ he said he was 100% CJ-4 since Oct..... my cost on 400 gallon... including everything $7. 70 gallon... ... . walmarts..... price... . $ 8. 80... ... STRONGLY CONSIDERING BUYING UP ENOUGHT TO RUN 2/3 YEARS... ... trucksalesdave... . central Georgia

 

[Crunch]

Issue 54, page 11: "If you don't have an engine equipped with a DPF, by all means utilize an API CI-4 oil! Your engine will thank you for it!" John Martin is the oil 'cat. ' I would go for what he recommends.

Between the new oil formulas and the ULSD fuels we're really getting jacked around here. I've noticed a 1. 5MPG drop in my fuel economy when driving around town. On the highway it's about a . 25MPG drop. No telling how the new oil is going to affect performance and fuel economy. At least it looks like the CI-4 oils will be around at least till 2009. There's nothing we can do about the ULSD except start using fuel additives. Does anyone know how the fuel additives rate for increasing lubricity?

 

[bluthndr]

Between the new oil formulas and the ULSD fuels we're really getting jacked around here. I've noticed a 1. 5MPG drop in my fuel economy when driving around town. On the highway it's about a . 25MPG drop.

I haven't figured out the actual #'s yet, but my mileage is definitely down also. I went to a Stanadyne seminar at Scheid's last fall, and the way I understand it, the refining process to remove the extra sulphur from the new fuel, has the "side effect" of also removing a significant portion of the BTU content in the fuel per unit volume. I want to say it removes up to 30% more of the heat energy contained in the fuel.



Like a lot of things, the ONLY benefit of ULSD is emissions. From what information is out there about it, it will cost more, be less efficient, and negatively impact the reliability of diesels as we know it. I guess if you have really old stuff (pre LSD), ULSD will ruin all the seals in your fuel system as well.



One of the seminar guys compared the 07 intro of ULSD to 1971 with gas engines...

 

[jjdiesel]

There are additives to use to retain the integrity of the seals and gaskets for the older engines, they are already being distributed... . our friends at Amsoil are making some. That's good news for the 12 valver guys. Also, it seems that Amsoil, for one, will continue making the CI-4 oil for the forseeable future. I guess the time is coming to make the switch to synthetic. I personally would rather do that and keep the good/proper mix of detergents for the 5. 9 rather than switch to the CJ-4 with the not as effective detergents... even though they say it is 'backwards compatible. '

 

[rbattelle]

Personally, I'd prefer to run CI-4. I've heard the idea that some CI-4 will continue to be available, but the writing's on the wall: CI-4 won't be available to the general public soon. I can't afford to buy my oil from Amsoil (don't need synthetic) or anywhere that needs to ship it to me.



So I'm stuck with CJ-4, I guess. Unless there's some chance you can find CI-4 at some sort of farm supply store - tractors and off-highway vehicles don't have DPFs and hence no need for CJ-4.



Maybe TSC would carry CI-4?



Ryan

 

[pwr2tow]

You fearful guys need to read some of the other forums and do less typing, that will help cut down on hype and aftermarket scar tactics.


I can see it now; buy brand X oil additive to help your engine survive. Proline, z-max, and all the late night infomercals will love you.

Stop and think, less sulfer means less soot, less soot means you no longer need extreme doses of additives. The closer fuel oil becomes to refined gas the cleaner an engine will run.

There is a fuel panel or organization (cann't remember there name) that is set up to make sure fuel oil has adequate lubricity in it for diesel engines. Aftermarket feeds on the notion that not everyone is going to beleave this so they induce hysteria in the public to make profits off of them. The same as what happened back in the mid 70's.

If I owned a 12 valve I would put in some additive just for reasurance.

In a 24 valve engine I wouldn't worry about fuel additives for lubricity. I would and do run fuel additives for anti-gel and injector cleaning.

 

[Buffalo]

This is a bit off-topic but, my neighbor is a diesel mechanic for a large asphalt company, here in Phoenix. They have a 10,000 gal. storage tank on their lot. After one of their most recent fill-ups (ULSD), they started having fuel injection system problems with many of their vehicles.



They recently purchased a fleet of the Kodiac type GM trucks with the Duramax engines. Most, if not all, have been down with problems.



They have been researching fuel additives to treat their stored fuel, thinking that that is the problem. When, all of a sudden, you start having a problem, you look at "what's different, now?". For them, it's the ULSD.



They may have just got a bad batch because, many other folks are running with ULSD & not having problems.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[rbattelle]

I just returned from buying up some of the last remaining CI-4 at a couple local places. Got enough for 15000 miles now (a little less than 1 years worth for me).



Ryan

 

[Crunch]

Stop and think, less sulfer means less soot, less soot means you no longer need extreme doses of additives. The closer fuel oil becomes to refined gas the cleaner an engine will run.

Flame me for saying this, but I don't care how clean or dirty my engine runs when the tradeoff is greater wear and tear on my engine. Less sulphur also means less lubricity. Less lubricity means higher friction. Higher friction means greater wear and tear. Greater wear and tear means shorter engine life. Here's a link to an article about the rising call for lubricity standards for ULSD:



http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYH/is_25_6/ai_96058330

"Refiners, engine makers and test experts have been haggling at ASTM over diesel lubricity limits for at least 13 years, but the urgency to do something grows along with the growing spread of low-lubricity ULSD fuel. "

There is a fuel panel or organization (cann't remember there name) that is set up to make sure fuel oil has adequate lubricity in it for diesel engines.

Show me the data that assures me "adequate" equals "the same or better" lubricity and I'll quit worrying. The duty cycle of the Cummins engine is 350,000 miles. In the past if we changed our oil regularly and used high quality diesel fuel we could probably get 500,000 miles out of it. If "adequate" means that no matter what we do now we are only going to get the rated 350,000 miles then I consider it a bad trade. I haven't used fuel or oil additives, with the exception of using an anti-gel treatment one time when I was in single digit temperatures for a few days. But I can see moving toward using additives on a regular basis if they really do provide superior lubricity, fuel economy and other protection than the new oil and fuel formulas. I don't care what the government claims is bad for the environment, and I don't care about the environmental effects of the additives. The government doesn't care if I have to buy a new vehicle a few years before I had planned on doing so.

 

[bluthndr]

For the record, I really only care about zinc in Rotella, as it will affect my choice of oil for breaking in flat tappet gasoline performance engines. I use synthetic for my trucks.



As far as ULSD, I care more about the effects of it on my VP44 trucks than the P7100 (they are invincible).

 

[pwr2tow]

No flame from me just passing along ideas.

By the way, the duty cycle for the cummins in the dodge application your speaking of is not because of oil or fuel, it's because of higher hp ratings in the new trucks compared to the older trucks. The older trucks came out with a 5. 9 12 valve at 160 Hp, The new trucks with the 5. 9 24 valve are at 325 Hp. Any time you increase stress on a subject it decreases duty life expectancy.