Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting new shotgun

[GHerrmann]

I just picked up a Charles Daly shotgun on sale for $200. Got it for home defence. Its got a nice short 18 3/4" barrel.



Now time to stock up on ammo. Cant afford to buy any more guns. I hope what I have now is enough.



I hope you dont think I'm crazy but I think if times get bad, people will be coming for what I have. Fear and hunger will make people do anything.

 

[LBARTLETT]

I don't think you are crazy!! Who knows what we are in for.

 

[The patriot]

It is better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.

 

[JGamble]

Charles Daily

Bro,



Great choice on the CD. I have won county competitions numerous times with my Field II with oversized barrel and tru-glow bead. You just CANNOT go wrong with the light recoil of that 12 and the effeciency of the ejection system. Two things come to mind being a personal defense instructor though. First, why take a field shotgun for that buisness? That could land you a decade or more in jail... . or prison. I am honestly not trying to second guess you choice... seriously. For home defense, I would have saved alittle money and bout a cruiser or camp defedender from Mossberg/Remington (a stockless shotgun with shortened barrel). Second, for your ammo, seen as how you are using a 12 gauge, make sure you use something light. Something like light pheasant load or my favorite, you can go to Cheaper Than Dirt - America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter and get non-lethal rounds (which looks better at trial when your sitting there still in shock). I defend my house with a 638 S&W Airweight in 38 +P but as a back up for multiple engagements, I have a Rem 870 with Seller and Bellot Rubber Buckshot. That pretty much guarentees you a non-inflicting wound, but still stopping the perpatrator. Better at court... . my two cents... .

 

[JLEONARD]

I once owned a CD O/U 12 gage. Used it for skeet shoooting for a few years.

I was a very nice high quality firearm.

Enjoy!!

 

[duckcarvr]

JGamble help me understand what you are saying about jail time. it sounds like be bought the gun already sawed off hence the price of $200. a 18" barrel is legal as long as overall length is 26". most prople addd 1/4 0r 3/4" to make sure they are legal. You can not fire a weapon at a person unless you feel you or somes life is endanger no matter what kind of amo. If this situation came to pass, double-0-buck center mass. robert

 

[JGamble]

duckcarvr-



exactly, you were right about the firing of weapons at people unless there is a immediate threat to you life... every state(s) verbage will be a little or alot different depending where you live. Double 0 is great, especially as a breaching tool. My . 02 on ammo? Well, most of jury on home defense shooting trials are NOT avid gun owners/sportmans and they own AT MOST a . 22 or a 12 gauge for hunting, would not understand why buck shot should be used. I would recommend a light skeet load. Stoppablity, frangibility, and cheap.



Regards,

John

 

[cksh8me]

Jgamble you do not know of what you speak. As far as laws go check your local listing. In Texas a neighbor saw two men B&E the house next door he shot and killed them both he was not indicted. Other states I'm sure differ, I know California does.



2nd a pistol grip only shotgun isn't a good choice for a shotgun, in fact in most cases it's a bad choice. Please get training from someplace other than Miami Vice.



If you are going to shoot somebody because you are in fear of your life you need them to stop what they are doing NOW. Slugs 00,000 buck are designed for that. Shooting somebody with bird shot is just a bad idea. If they don't die they are going to testify against you. If you don't need to stop them NOW you shouldn't be shooting them at all.



Pistol grip only shotguns with short barrels are great for opening doors (master key) but that's about it.

 

[JGamble]

Glad we all have our views..... as mine comes from the great state of North Carolina. Only am I certified as a concealed carry instructor, I am a small arms instructor and certified dynamic/stealth breacher for the Marine Corp and have been for the past 6 years. Shortened barreled shotguns (still within the legal 18") are a great viable asset for CQB, if used properly. 00 are great loads for door busting, bangin and hangin thugs, and a sure non-stop way to KILL your target. But what happen when you shoot that 00 Buck at 7 yards, it penetrates the target, penetrates the wall behind the target, and hits one of your loved ones? Numerous incidents have been cited within for over penetration and over powered loads. Massood Ayoob (one of the originators of defense shooting) himself said in a interview release in Gun Weekly he uses a light bird load for home defense. Testify against the individual? Yes. But what happens when the jury (which by the way, you will have a jury hearing) decideds that lethal force was NOT necessary to defeat the threat. Now instead of homicide you are facing aggravated assault with a firearm. That is two greatly seperate classes of FELONIES; not to mention you wont have the thought in your head for the rest of your life of taking another life. Triple B shot, placed right, will stop just about anything 00 Buck will (for soft tissue penetration) at 7-10 yards (which statistics show, 97% of all home defense encounters are at that distance or shorter).

 

[kenny61]

Hope for the best but prepare fore the worst.



Pray for peace but prepare for war



No you aint crazy, just thinking like a Marine

 

[cksh8me]

Jgamble In your senerio of over penetrating you must not have listened very closely to Masaad or you wouldn't be too worried about that problem. Also if you want to listen to Masaad you will hear him praise a couple of LAPD officers as to what they have been doing in tactics and other "duties" one a friend the other a relative (but pretty far removed). I also have some instructor credentials not as note worthly as yours but I have done my home work.



Yes a short barreled shotgun is a great firearm to have extremely useful. But not so good with a pistol grip only stock as I thought you stated.

 

[kenny61]

This is a quote from Ayoob (since I dont have first hand knowledge with a 12 ga)

The traditional 00 (double-aught) buckshot load will often send four or five of its nine . 33 caliber pellets through and through an average-size human male who is lightly clad and takes a face-on torso shot.

\



I like #4 buck shot or bird shot in my home 12 gauge. While I do not care about overpentraing the bad guy,as far as i'm concerned there is no such thing as OVER pentrating, I do worry about my kids who may be laying in bed on the other side of the wall. the longest shot in my house is 50' and would require us to be in opposite rooms with the door's open. The more likely shot is me coming out of the bedroom and getting him/her from about 3-15' if the first quick bird shot dont put em down it will at least disorient em long enough for me to get my head shot in. If i had no choice with having to take the shot knowing my child was laying in bed directly behind him I would feel much better knowing that a slowed down bird pellet would more than likely not result in a fatal shot to my child. Now some may say I should not shoot in this situation my response is if i go down who will protect my wife and other child?

 

[JGamble]

no lie with a AOW shotgun. As mentioned earlier, it is a breachers dream. Useless for most if not any other application then breaching CQB. IMHO though, my first defense I use for the house and carry is my S&W 638 Airweight +P . 38 I only break out the 870 if S**T goes down hard or my . 38 is out of commission (be it still in the clothes from yesterday or locked up [I have my daughter stay with me sometimes]). True to what Kenny said, in some scenerios, there is no such OVER PENETRATION, but while in a mobile home (which almost directly represents a "Tar House"), one must take all variables into consideration while conducting home defense operations. Even the Airweight is loaded with Glacier safety rounds. I carry out in town with HP's, still pretty dangerous but still less frangible then the Glaciers. It all depends on what you feel confident with, what the varialbles are, and how much you practiced.

Just for the record, all previous statements are not me "preaching" the bible, as there is no "set in stone" doctrine of home defense. They were all little bits of information I have gained throughout the years of my instruction that I thought I could pass on..... hope no ones feelings were hurt.....

 

[kenny61]

An unscientific test about 12 gauge penetration and drywall



The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1



On my home 12gauge I also load it opposite of my outside 12 gauge. Inside I load it starting with a bird shot or #4 buck and will finish it off with 00 and a slug. To clarify so that the slug or 00 would be the last shot fired before reload. On my outside I will start with slug or 000 and work my way bak down to 00 or 4 buckshot. Thinking is if the burglar is wearing heavy winter clothes,(must are always underdressed for the cold) and the smaller loads fail i can work my way up and position myself so kids are not down range. Outside the threat would probably start at a further distance if he runs away who cares if he comes closer i will progressively place more holes in him with each shot and since the distance has closed i wil get same penetration

 

[GHerrmann]

I'll stick to the shotgun with a stock. I think that would look better in court than a one w/o a stock.



As for ammo, 00 buck all the way, don't want to p/o an attacker, but stop them in their tracks. If they are hopped up on drugs bird shot = bird sh**.



Anyone who gets into my home must get past my two Dobermans first.



Also have CCW for away from home. Carry Sig p220 45 ACP FMJHP



I was involved in martial arts for over 25 yrs. However I am now disabled So I am unable to defend myself without a weapon. I have worked hard for what I have. And still work full time doing manual labor, enduring a lot of pain everyday to make through. I do not want to go on SS until the day I just can't walk anymore. Thats why I'm so hard arsed about someone taking what I have. Sorry about the rant, its just the way I feel.

 

[kenny61]

Carry Sig p220 45 ACP FMJHP

Nothing like a sig 220!!!!!!

 

[crobertson1]

Mrs. Santa brought me one of these this fine Christmas day:



charles-daly.com: KBI (Charles Daly) CDGF3010 TACT 12 18 CYL



Oo. Oo.

 

[JCyrbok]

I have an 1187 Police model, ghost ring sights, extended mag tube and Speed Feed 2 tactical pistol grip stock (the kind that have a butt stock and pistol grip). Gun runs and shoots very well and is the first gun that I will grab should I need to defend my house. Lucky if for me if you get into my house I have a natural defensive position that puts all bedrooms behind me.



As for ammo I run straight #4 buck. More than enough to kill a person in an inhouse shooting distance but less likely to over penetrate. Ihave slugs in a side saddle shell holder incase bad guy wants to hide behind my couch or kitchen island.



As for using birdshot like has been suggested above, leave that for birdhunting. About 10 years ago I took a call at work (i'm a cop) where a young man was despondent over a break up. He loaded a shotgun with either #6 or 8 birdshot (cant remember now) and put the barrell under his chin and pulled the trigger. Litterally removed the center of his face and his jaw. This bird shot was so "effective" at this close range (contact shot to the head!) that I still see the young man on a farely regular basis as he panhandles from people on the street. He still lacks a face but it didnt kill him. Now image shooting at bad guy across your living room (20-30feet) and he has on a leather coat or a carhart and you are shooting birdshot.



If you are serious about home defense, get training, use the right equipement for you and do not worry about killing someone if you are truely justified under the law that govern this stuff in your state. Shoot me with bird shot and I might die, but you are gonna have a hell of a fight on your hands untill I do. Run 00, 000, 0000 buck or a slug through me and it will likely be a single shot gun fight.



As for a . 38 for home defense, yeah thats better than birdshot, but dont forget that in the Miami FBI shoot out in the 80's, one bad guy took a . 38 through the heart, lived for aleast another minute and killed 2 agents (IIRC) after he was shot.



For handguns the ammo and shot placement is key. We had an officer involved shooting where bad guy took 3 . 40cal hydra shocks at less than ten feet. 2 of the 3 where considered fatal and he was immediately stopped. All three rounds were recovered at autopsy, perfectly mushroomed per design. If you over penetrate with any ammo, it is a waste of kinetic energy.



Hope this helps but also hope this does not turn this into an "oil war" thread, LMAO.



Happy holidays,

J-