New tires now loose steering-???

[Drewhenry]

I have been away from the forums for quite a while busy with life. Updated my signature. Put new tires on the truck last week.
Now running Toyo OC AT 2...285/75R17 E. I am noticing almost a delayed reaction in the steering. My previous tires were the old Toyo OC AT, same size, and before that Cooper 305 D something.....garbage(never again). I installed new shocks-Bilstein 5100 all the way around last year. I am the original owner of this vehicle and ball joints were replaced under warranty before my 1st oil change. The odometer now reads 209K and change. The truck does not pull to either side rolling down the highway, so I have not had the alignment checked.

I desperately need to do brakes front & rear and plan on rotors, hoses, calipers, pads, wheel and hub bearings, inner and outer axle seals and parking brake. However, this steering issue is going to take priority. Other than ball joints and maybe tie rod ends what else is likely to be worn out at my kind of mileage?

Ball joints-with or without zerks? Does one brand outlast the other?

Andy

 

[SnoKing]

Put some miles on the new tires before going crazy on repairs. SNOKING

 

[BigPapa]

Put some miles on the new tires before going crazy on repairs. SNOKING

This ^^^^

Several threads on here about this situation. Many theories as to why this happens but the bottom line is, put some miles on them and it goes away. Nothing has changed on your truck except the tires and there's nothing going to "show up" with the new tires that you couldn't tell was there with the old tires.

 

[6speed]

Not trying comparing apples to apples, but when I drove big trucks, the owner put 10 new tires on the rig I drove, When it was loaded, it squirmed so bad I thought they forgot to tighten the lugs. Quite the uneasy feeling. Put about 30-40K on them and it cleared up. After that it was an axle at a time especially not both drive axles.

 

[mwilson]

Not trying comparing apples to apples, but when I drove big trucks, the owner put 10 new tires on the rig I drove, When it was loaded, it squirmed so bad I thought they forgot to tighten the lugs. Quite the uneasy feeling. Put about 30-40K on them and it cleared up. After that it was an axle at a time especially not both drive axles.

As stated above, it is simply a new tire squirm. There have been many discussions regarding this, it's almost like the rubber needs to cure. On a semi tractor with all new drive tires under a 100000 pound load it will feel just like you are on ice in every corner. As I recall it took about 2 weeks or five thousand miles before the tires would settle down.

On our CTD Trucks it feels like a delay as you described.

 

[RustyJC]

Tread squirm. Common with many new tires, although I really haven't noticed it with the new Michelin LTX MS2s I just put on my truck to replace the POS factory Generals.

Rusty

 

[Drewhenry]

Tire Squirm? Had never heard of that before, but makes sense.

Looks like I get to make her stop as well as go. I figured when I tear down the front end for brakes I might as well fix the squirrely steering. Glad to know about the squirm-Money I can buy reloading supplies and more night vision with....

Andy

 

[crispyboy]

I am currently going through this squirm with some new tires installed two weeks ago. Firestone Transforce AT - They balanced well - no vibration or noise on the highway.

 

[cerberusiam]

Tire Squirm?

Don't discount it but don't drink the Kool-Aid either. I have lost count of sets of tires on 1,2, 3rd gen trucks of sizes from stock to 37" on a variety of wheels with any possible tread from all major manufacturers. Have NEVER EVER had any such an occurrence as tire squirm because the tire had to harden. I have many handling problems from under inflated tires, too light of tires, and mismatched tires. There is a reason for it.

First thing to do is walk out there with a pressure tester and make sure they put enough air in the tires. That is a tall sidewall tire on a 17" rim if there is only 50 psi in them you have your answer. This happens all the time with these light tires on stock rims, not enough sidewall strength for the weight. You have to air them up until they are solid or they just wallow down the road.

While you are under the front end check the track bar for movement when the steering is worked, the bushings will get soft and you will have a lot of lateral play under pressure. Check the steering box for vertical play. Most common problem is wear in the sector shaft that allows movement when stressed. Doesn't take much on a tall tire and you wonder which one went flat when driving.

 

[mwilson]

The tire pressure check is a good idea, although I would assume that he has checked that but maybe not.....

Kool-Aid? Not sure about that.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=5

 

[RustyJC]

Don't discount it but don't drink the Kool-Aid either....

Kool-Aid? I think not. It's a very real phenomenon, as Mike pointed out. If you've ever autocrossed on new, fully treaded street tires, you would be very familiar with it.

Rusty

 

[mwilson]

From the Michelin site....

http://m.michelinman.com/US/en/help/faq/faq-tire-care-and-maintenance.html#question-14

 

[mwilson]

Cerb is telling him not to ignore a basic once over....

I have been thinking about tires mounted by someone other than myself on my CTD's over the years, and then found them to only.have 45 lbs of air....

 

[cerberusiam]

If you've ever autocrossed on new, fully treaded street tires, you would be very familiar with it.

That would fall squarely under the heading of mismatching tires to usage. Put the CORRECT tire on the problems disappear. Just like I am not auto-crossing my truck, I am not towing 10k with my SRT-8 Challenger and wondering why handling is different. IT handles wet roads and 1xx (numbers blanked to protect the innocent) mph without a quiver but is totally USELESS on an auto cross or hard launch. Swap on a set of good sticky performance tires and the difference is night and day, but, I would park it if the sun went under a cloud or the wind came up. On damp or dust covered surface it is downright scary.

Yes, new tires are going to handle differently than worn or damaged ones. Are they going to slide around on lubricants, introduce massive amounts of latency in the steering? Not on an 8k truck, given all else is solid. Will the handling characteristics change slightly with usage? Of course, it is normal. Will one get used to the new handling? Naturally, and, all of sudden what was a problem before is now compensated for with a learned response so we have to explain it with things like tire squirm and breaking in. It could NEVER be the loose nut behind the wheel. :-laf:-laf

The only "tire squirm" I can absolutely acknowledge experiencing is the "squirm" that happens when the driving force overcomes the available traction. Then they squirm all over the road and leaves tracks like a drunk snake.

I scored a set of 285/65/20 TransForce AT tires and 4th gen wheels that basically went down the street to the tire shop, still had the new tire spikes on them. AFTER I fixed the alignment issue and suspension issue it is on a rail even on these cow trail roads we have here. When you can run down a road at 70 mph feeling the bump steer as the suspension cycles while the truck feels like it is on smooth road there ain't no such thing as tire squirm. If you try to run these tires at 45-50 psi like some want to for ride they will wallow along the road ruts. Put them at 70 psi and it is a distant bad memory. These replaced an almost bald set of Falken AT's and the handling got BETTER without the other fixes. The Falkens were 2nd choice when I made the tire shop swap out the 285/75/17 Nitto's that handled like pig on an icy road. Those tires were AWFUL unless the psi was maxxed out and even then with a heavy load they swayed. Too tall sidewall, to flimsy. Might be great for a gasser with a cub cadet in the back, useless for a real truck.

My son put a set of 295/70/20 Nitto Trails on his truck when we punctured the worn out slicks he had. Yes, it did handle differently and it took all of about 2 hours to find the steering sector had an 1/8 play up and down in it. Once that was adjusted it handled just fine, on a SB truck even. However, these tires are rated at 3900 lbs load rating, not the 3195.

If I am cynical about "tire squirm" it is because EVERY single time I have found a handling problem with new tires there was something wrong mechanically with the truck or the tires that once corrected solve the problem along with some seat time. I say BAH! to a simple explanation as tire squirm. If something doesn't feel right look for the source, at the end of the day you might just find you are a victim of PPP.

 

[BigPapa]

Cerb is telling him not to ignore a basic once over....

Well I guess that's not all he's saying, is it? Sounds like he's saying all the rest of us are stupid and/or crazy.

It amazes me how someone like "Cerb" totally dismisses the EXPERIENCES of several people because he KNOWS they are all WRONG. I've read many informative posts from "Cerb" over the years but this attitude baffles me. What CONCEIT? Must be getting crankier as he gets older.

Guess we have a new Harvey......

Several people in this thread and many people in other threads on the same subject HAVE experienced this "phenomenon" even though "Cerb" has not. MAYBE all these people that HAVE experienced "tire squirm" are just better drivers or more in-tune with their trucks, hhmmmm? (See, I can make outrageous claims, too, but I don't really think that statement's true.)



Andy, sure you need to inspect your truck for any of the problems you mentioned above. If you find something wrong, fix it immediately and then tell me you don't still experience the "tire squirm". It is real, it's recognized by manufacturers and retailers. All that I and others here are saying is to give it a couple of thousand miles and see if it doesn't go away before spending hundreds of dollars "fixing" something that really didn't need it. Do you really think your ball joints SUDDENLY wore out when you got the new tires?



The worst I have experienced was a new set of Michelin LTX M/S's that I and a friend installed on my truck at the tire and truck repair shop where we worked. They were factory size, load range "E", and I put 70psi in each before balancing them. On the way home going up "The Ridge" (a pretty steep and curvy hill) on I-24, it seemed like I was going to run off the road it was so bad. I stopped at the top of the hill where I got off I-24 and checked for a loose wheel, checked the air pressure, and inspected my steering linkages. All were fine. I continued to notice this "phenomenon" on my daily 50 mile commute, but eventually, after a couple of weeks it got better and better and after a month or so it was completely gone. I have experienced it with other new tires also but never as bad as those Michelin's.

Our shop had the contract with several EMS's in our's and surrounding counties and we installed a LOT of tires on their ambulances. One county decided they wanted to go to an all terrain tire on the rears because they'd had one truck get stuck in an interstate median in a mud hole. On the first set we installed, the EMT's that drove it in brought it back after driving about five miles back toward their HQ complaining of a loose wheel or some other problem. They said they could barely hold it in the road. We checked everything and there were no issues. Their director had driven another ambulance to our shop for the same replacement. We advised him that it was "tire squirm". He decided to take the new ones out for a drive before we changed the others and he had the same experience. We put her in the air and let him observe as everything was checked without discovering an issue. He decided to put the tires we had taken off back on (there was nothing wrong with them, they just wanted to go to the A/T's) and see if the issue disappeared. We put the old tires back on and the issue was gone. The director decided that they would stay with what they had and stay away from soft spots in the medians.

 

[NIsaacs]

Tire squirm is real, not imagined. Most of my rigs over the years were 2 wheel drive, so mostly when tires were purchased they were mud grips and only for the rear. In other words, only 2 at a time. Since they were only installed on the rear, no front end pieces and parts were tossed at the trucks. The worst tires I ever installed were on my dually 2 wheel drive. They were super swampers, 750x16 tube type bias 10 plys, like these:



Nick

 

[Drewhenry]

The TDR USED TO BE a forum I could get wonderful information from others that had experienced and resolved similar issues without urinating all over each other's experiences. I expect this kind of childishness on accuratereloading, not on the TDR.

When did professionalism go out the door and "my brother can kick your brother's backside" take over?

I appreciate the informed responses.

Tires were supposed to be inflated to 70psi as per my specifications. I have not checked them.

There is a lot of work I have been meaning to do and possibly the new tires are exacerbating and magnifying the issues.

Andy B

 

[RustyJC]

The TDR USED TO BE a forum I could get wonderful information from others that had experienced and resolved similar issues without urinating all over each other's experiences. I expect this kind of childishness on accuratereloading, not on the TDR.

Andy,

I agree. I've been here ALMOST 15 years and am staring at a renewal reminder in my Quicken program. For the first time, I have serious questions about what to do with it....

Rusty

 

[SnoKing]

All I can say is I almost crashed my tanker truck with new tires on the steer axle. There is a bridge on the Elwha River on highway 101 West of Port Angeles. We took old Michelin tires off and installed Toyo's or Yohohama's, and the first trip back from Forks running empty I crossed the bridge and hit the corner at the bottom of the "Elwha Hill" and almost went into the rock wall. They got better with some miles on them. This was a twin screw Titan 90 Chevy.

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[Steve St.Laurent]

Throwing a little water on the fire here guys. Let's tone it down and get on with the helpful informative posts.

Thanks,
Steve St.Laurent
Lead Moderator