New tires now loose steering-???

[BigPapa]

Thank you Steve and sorry fellows. TDR's the best and I certainly don't want to trash it up. I did get a bit too personal with Cerb. My apologies Cerb. I certainly would hate for someone to leave here because of something I've said. Just trying to add my experiences to the conversation but I take exception when someone dismisses the experiences of others and comes off as the final authority on a subject. I certainly don't want to be "that guy".

Again, I apologize for my actions.

Carry on.

 

[Dl5treez]

Sleep in one day and miss all the fun. Ok ok not funny but hey sometimes Ya gotta run a bit hot once in a while to remember you're alive. lol. At any rate....

I know the exact bridge SNOKING speaks of and also can attest to "tire squirm" or whatever it's called in a technical sense. It's more prevalent in medium/heavy truck tires but can happen with light duty tires also. Some are worse than others. Heck I put new rubber on my stupid little Jetta car and holy balls it's NOT happy at the moment. Hoping it will come out of it with some miles but if not I can scratch the Toyo Eclipse off the list of my car's favorite things.

Good things are basic checks, maybe do a rotate side to side or front to back, even if there is no pull, just to rule out an actual tire build issue. Most decent tire shops have a ride & drive guarantee so they should make it right if you just don't like the feel. I have been noticing lately brand new virgin Toyo rubber is acting funny across the board on my stuff, compared to "back in the day". The M55 is the same as are most of their older models but their new & improved stuff is wonky.

You should try on a set of new virgin Toyo M506Z's on a wet day loaded. Good lord. Pucker factor for the first few thousand miles until they heat cycle a few times.

 

[petersonj]

Tires were supposed to be inflated to 70psi as per my specifications. I have not checked them.
Andy B

I don't know if you have worn parts, tire squirm, or air pressure issues. But, I want to share a recent experience that reconfirms to me how important proper inflation is. I have been running Michelin LT265/75R16/E LTX M/S tire for most of the life of my truck which is a t 240,000 miles now. Just recently my wife and did a 12,000 road trip to see the fall colors on the east coast area. The GCWR of our truck and travel trailer (using a weight distribution hitch) was right at 12,600 lbs (4600 front axle, 4000 rear axle, and 4000 trailer axles). Toward the end of our trip we passed through El Paso, Texas where I purchased four new tires (the same as mentioned above) because the tread was down to 2/32" on the old tires. I requested that the new front tires to be inflated to 55 psi and the new rear tires to 50 psi which was the same pressure I had been running for the last 10,000 miles. I chose these tire pressures based on the tire weight rating and the actual individual truck axle weight recorded at a weigh station.

After hooking up the trailer and heading west on Interstate 10, I noticed that the rig wasn't handling quite right. It felt like a rig I drove years ago that had mixed radial and bias ply tires installed. I felt a subtle side to side motion around 65 mph on a good road surface and no wind to speak of. The motion was more pronounced when other vehicles passed by me, especially larger vehicles. None of these symptoms had occurred before the new tires were installed. I was beginning to wonder if I was imagining this because it just didn't seem possible with new tires installed. After about an hour of driving, I pulled into a rest area and checked tire pressure. The truck front axle tires were at 55 psi and the rear axle tires were at 80 psi. I lowered the rear axle tires to 50 psi. We returned to the freeway and all of the previously mentioned handling symptoms disappeared and the rig handled very well, just the same as before I installed the new tires.

I have never heard of tire squirm before I read these posts. I don't discount that it exists for it seems that I am forever learning new things, just when I thought I had some things mastered. This discussion forum has prompted me to look into tire squirm and it does appear that it exists, it is just that I have never personally experienced it, at least that I know of.

If you do all of the prudent things (ensure proper tire pressure, check for worn steering and suspension parts, etc.) before you throw money at it, I think you will probably figure out what is going on.

- John

 

[Regcabguy]

Don't discount it but don't drink the Kool-Aid either. I have lost count of sets of tires on 1,2, 3rd gen trucks of sizes from stock to 37" on a variety of wheels with any possible tread from all major manufacturers. Have NEVER EVER had any such an occurrence as tire squirm because the tire had to harden. I have many handling problems from under inflated tires, too light of tires, and mismatched tires. There is a reason for it.

First thing to do is walk out there with a pressure tester and make sure they put enough air in the tires. That is a tall sidewall tire on a 17" rim if there is only 50 psi in them you have your answer. This happens all the time with these light tires on stock rims, not enough sidewall strength for the weight. You have to air them up until they are solid or they just wallow down the road.

While you are under the front end check the track bar for movement when the steering is worked, the bushings will get soft and you will have a lot of lateral play under pressure. Check the steering box for vertical play. Most common problem is wear in the sector shaft that allows movement when stressed. Doesn't take much on a tall tire and you wonder which one went flat when driving.

I don't know what you want to call it but my 285-75-17 Toyo MT's were very squirrly up to about 800 miles at which time they ceased to exhibit the floating sensation. They became my best handling Toyo aside from their M-55's. None of my Toyo AT's have exhibited it. At work they mounted Bandag retreads on the rear of our Hino medium duty trucks with new radials up front. Now that was bad handling.

 

[Drewhenry]

Seems pinche gringo aqui got chingled on tire pressure. I checked with an expensive gauge and again with two el cheapo gauges then drove right to Discount Tire. RR-79.5, LR-77, RF-52, LF-55( how many of you expected to see 16035 :-laf ). They inflated them to 75 all the way 'round and problem solved.

I remember the last two sets of tires doing something similar, but not nearly as pronounced.

 

[Dl5treez]

Seems pinche gringo aqui got chingled on tire pressure. I checked with an expensive gauge and again with two el cheapo gauges then drove right to Discount Tire. RR-79.5, LR-77, RF-52, LF-55( how many of you expected to see 16035 :-laf ). They inflated them to 75 all the way 'round and problem solved.

I remember the last two sets of tires doing something similar, but not nearly as pronounced.

Excellent! Glad they found it for you and it was a simple fix.

To your question about greasable vs non greasable components. It varies but most of the time a non greasable that stays sealed will last a rather long time. Many people don't grease their trucks and the greasable types wear out much faster in that regard.

If you keep a grease gun handy then you can keep them alive longer.

 

[JR]

I run 285/75/17s on my 2nd gen as well but I run them at a much lower pressure when empty. Not only does it ride like a buck board with 70+ psi, I found the centers also wear slightly faster than the edges.
I use a basic tire inflation formula for my truck and have established empty tire pressures as well as loaded with the camper. I also haul a lot of odds and ends with my 22 ft tilt trailer and guesstimate the pressures based on my camper weight and go from there.

Single Tire: (Axle Weight / 2) / Tire Capacity weight x Tire Max Pressure = Inflation Pressure

So my drive axle empty weight is 3260 lbs.

3260/2= 1630
1630/3195 (capacity of tire) = .51
.51 x .80 (max tire pressure)= .41 or 41 psi. That is with a completely empty truck, no passengers, cargo in the bed and aux fuel tank empty. Being I fill my aux tank everytime I fill my regular tank, always have one or more people in the truck plus who knows what in the bed I run 50 psi in the rears and call it good. Fronts are aired to 60 psi empty. No squirm or noticeable sidewall Flex, tire wear is dead even, and there is a noticeable difference in ride quality vs being aired up all the time.

 

[JR]

Tire squirm is real, not imagined. Most of my rigs over the years were 2 wheel drive, so mostly when tires were purchased they were mud grips and only for the rear. In other words, only 2 at a time. Since they were only installed on the rear, no front end pieces and parts were tossed at the trucks. The worst tires I ever installed were on my dually 2 wheel drive. They were super swampers, 750x16 tube type bias 10 plys, like these:



Nick

those are more than enough to get you in trouble with a heavy 2 wheelin squealin pig :-laf

 

[cerberusiam]

I don't know what you want to call it but my 285-75-17 Toyo MT's were very squirrly up to about 800 miles at which time they ceased to exhibit the floating sensation.

There is something about the latest crop of 17" tires that is just not right, 10 years ago never had this issue with Toyo MT's but lately it is to prevalent. I had the same issue on Nittos of that size and I made them swap them for a different tire which solved the problem.

The difference is I just won't deal with problems like that because it MIGHT get better. I don't feel I need to do that when spending $350-400 per tire on a vehicle I rely on and want to feel safe in.

I also quit buying anything but a full set of tires for a vehicle, 2x4 or 4x4. Yes, it is expensive but the problems just do not make sense to deal with.

As the OP found out to his chagrin, just because you tell them to do a certain air pressure does not mean it always happens and it has a huge impact on handling. One MUST check the critical stuff before even starting to wonder what is going on. Call it whatever one wants, if it doesn't feel right and it makes you uncomfortable driving there is NO reason to just chalk it up to some anomalous condition that might get better. Chances are way better than even there IS a very real problem at the source.

 

[petersonj]

I use a basic tire inflation formula for my truck and have established empty tire pressures as well as loaded with the camper

Thank you JR. I am glad you posted this kind of information. I agree with your methods and I do the same with my truck and trailer tires. Some time ago I viewed a tire inflation chart for Michelin tires rated for our trucks and the Michelin chart reflected comparable inflation pressures for varying loads as you demonstrated.

By matching the tire inflation pressure to the actual weight the tire is carrying, the tire tread footprint is maintained at the size intended from the manufacturer, which is really the objective. By maintaining a constant foot print size (matching weight to psi) you will minimize heat buildup in the sidewalls and the tires on each axle will perform at their best. On my truck and trailer I have monitored tire temperatures during long driving periods at 65 mph on 100 degree days and found that the tires perform well using weight driven inflation pressures.

For those who are willing to experiment, you will probably find that this weight-to-inflation adjustment will improve vehicle control on each axle and thus improve overall vehicle performance while maintaining the most comfortable ride in the cab.

- John

 

[Drewhenry]

Jr makes an interesting point. Might be time for me to reduce pressure. Hadn't thought about it that way. I am more than willing to experiment.

 

[NIsaacs]

those are more than enough to get you in trouble with a heavy 2 wheelin squealin pig :-laf

Yup, I was gonna cut a fat hog in the rear and keep up with the 4x4 guys in the log woods, it was my daily driver for 8 years. I still used up a set of three railers:-laf It took a month for those tires to cure, I didn't expect that on a dually.

Nick

 

[Regcabguy]

I met a guy a month ago who's truck was sporting some Nitto Duragrapplers. Discount had swapped them out for some of Nitto's G2's. 285-75-17's both. His truck swayed all over the road after a month. He loves the Dura's.

 

[fkovalski]

Just got new boots on the truck 2 weeks ago. I sense some tire squirm and immediately related to to the deeper tread. Interesting info from the tire mfgrs about it.
I am no Mario Andretti out there but I most definitely am driving slower getting used to the new tire "feel."

 

[Mingoglia]

I too know tire squirm to be real. Have heard rumors that OEM tires have slightly shorter tread than their replacement counter-parts, which is why it's not as apparently on new trucks (with new tires) as it is with just buying the "same" tire again at Discount and finding they handle different. Whatever it is, I've experienced it and after 500 or so miles everything is back to normal.