Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) new-to-us CTD with hesitation and white smoke, ideas?

[bnbrown]

I just picked up a 2002 2500 5speed w/ 96K on it for a friend, when I picked it up it needed some work (was supposed to be in "perfect" running condition from the dealer... well it wouldnt go over 2200rpm without severe hesitation and bucking... the oil resembled tar, I am guessing atleast 10K since last change at least... air filter was compromised and plugged (was bent out of shape on one side allowing some air to bypass :-{} ), after replacing air filter and oil change truck still had hesitation but not quite as bad (a very small improvement). This was not a supprise, but I didnt really want to change the fuel filter since I had a pretty good guess the LP was gone too and would make it a PIA to get started again (we needed to go from Houston, tx to the middle of NE before 8am the coming morning, after receiving the truck at noon instead of 9am and after finding the nearest walmart for an airfilter and a firestone facility for an oilchange it was already nearly 4pm). So i drove it through the night, keeping it below 2000rpm where there was no hesitation evident (yes i know it is a terrible thing to do to a VP, but sometimes you just have to drive ). When we got to NE at 7AM the next morning driving straight through, I got a new fuel filter for it, and spotted "the big C" sign down the street, and picked up a new LP. I only had very basic tools along, so i tossed in the new filter and got her started back up (yes the LP was dead, it still made noise on starter bump, but barely could prime). Here we picked up a trailer and headed for wyoming (only about 200 miles, compared to the 900 from Houston), the truck no longer showed any hesitation, but I could feel the familiar behavior of a dead LP from experience. We got to a freinds place and tossed in the new LP, primed up great, sprayed fuel everywhere. On the trip home (wyoming to CA) I noticed a couple times after more than a couple minutes of idling it would blow heavy white smoke when you started up a freeway onramp or the first time you took it above 2500rpm. I would just stick it in the next gear and lean on it a little, and it would clear right up and go, it would continue to excelerate while the smoke was evident, but not as strong. After that first time you got it up to speed and until you let it come back to idle for a few minutes you wouldnt see it again... No guages yet, but it did sound like the turbo was trying to spool up properly. The outside air temp ranged from low teens to mid 50s.

I am guessing the MAP sensor is probably compromised from the air "filter" being damaged, as well as the IAT probably being dirty as all get out, but I havent had a chance to pull them yet and take a look. It did have a code, P1693 (yeah... companion code), but no other codes were displayed on the 3 keys-to-on deal.

The truck now has about 99300 miles on it, so I am looking for any real indicators the VP is dying so we could have a chance of getting it replaced under the 100K warranty... I am planning on replacing the MAP, and cleaning the IAT soon, my friend has it (since she owns it) so it will probably have to wait a couple weeks until I have time to work on it (a 4 hour drive each way to see the pretty new rig).

Any suggestions would be appreciated... dont know the history on the truck, bought at auction... repo sale... nice to drive 99. 9999% of the time now. Kind of bonded with her after hitting black ice in WY on the 80 with 40MPH+ crosswinds (with 27' total length gooseneck horse trailer), and managed to recover (cant say the same for my shorts though)

a pic of the truck, trailer and happy new CTD owner



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[hensign]

That is exactly what mine did prior to melting the vp44. I am sorry to say there was no way to prove it at the time and I did everything to deny the vp was about to die. I really felt the smoke was more bluish and even swapped out a turbo thinking I had a bad seal. But in the end it was the VP. No codes, no other signs, smooth running except at 2500 rpm when it would hessitate and smoke. Then finally after nearly 30k of the smoke about 500 miles from home I was running really hard above 3000RPM with an 8k lb trailer and blaahhhhh. It puked it smoked it clattered and stalled. Restarted and then I drove the rest of the way home at 1100 rpm&32mph. 8 hours turned into 18 and I spent the whole night waiting for an 18 wheeled enima. The only thing I can suggest is to try this, on thew first run when it would normally smoke DONT accelerate just hold it there and let it smoke and cough. If it will do this, maybe you can get a dealer tech to do it and then once noted it should be covered.

Had

 

[bnbrown]

I have a cummins shop here in town that i have worked with, and chances are if i tell them it is bad, they will go with that, and I can get it to do it every time... and you are right, it does seem bluish, I checked the oil frequently, and it never moved... i am pretty sure it isnt the turbo since it does it only under those specific conditions...

Does anyone know how that warranty works? she just bought the truck, so havent done any of the owner reg. cards or anything... will cummins service centers honor the 100K warranty on these trucks?

If I do have my shop work on it probably have to go get the truck and haul it down here on a trailer to keep the odometer from crankin over the magic number...

It would not suprise me if the VP was cooked, who knows how long the truck was run in the condition we picked it up.

 

[claykelly]

Mine did the same thing when my VP went out, would barely pull over 2600, sounded like 2 or 3 cyl's dropping out, HUGE amounts of white smoke. Replaced VP, found lift pump dead, replaced lift pump, installed 275's. Life is good.

 

[bnbrown]

yeah, it really is sounding like the VP... the truck is in the sacramento CA area so guess I will need to find her an honest Cummins mechanic up there, she is going to haul horses with the rig (obviously from the pic )so breakdowns are to be avoided at all costs...

my understanding on that warranty is that it follows the truck... i hope so

Bought it on ebay, have emailed the seller about maybe listing their vehicles acurately (i wouldnt call a truck in this condition "great running condition", especially when we picker her up and it barely ran)

seller was "capitalfleetservice" in case anyone is looking on ebay for a seller to avoid.

grossly misrepresented the vehicle... but when the vehicle is dropped off, you need to be somewhere, and it is the only way to get there... you take it and deal with the BS later... and new it had some warranty left

thanks again... any more input would be appreciated

 

[JeffD]

How long has it been since the fuel filter was replaced? My '99 did the same thing all of a sudden. Poured out white smoke over 2000 rpm's, and basically shut the motor down after that. Replaced the filter, and have not had a problem since. Filters are cheap. Try that first.



Jeff

 

[bnbrown]

fuel filter was replaced within the last 1000 miles as well as the LP, and airfilter

 

[CFast]

The air filter was bent and allowing air to bypass!? Get it to a dyno and have them run a blowby test on it. Diesels suck A LOT of air, with even just a small hole it can suck enough dirt to destroy the rings in no time. How much oil did it burn while you drove it?

 

[joaker]

The fact that the air filter was pooched would lead me to believe that there is a really good/bad possibility that there was some dirt sucked into her, never good, but another cheap option would be to grab some HOWES MEANER POWER CLEANER, it is like an enima for you truck, and will clean the injectors as well as can be done, plus it isn't too expensive, I have seen a Powerstroke smoking white, fed her a bottle of the cleaner and it almost completely cleared it up, I run the howes fuel conditioner every tank, you can over use it, and I run the cleaner every fourth tank or so, so far so good. And as far as reducing down time at all costs, I would personally look at a FASS fuel system, it will keep a continuous supply of fuel to the ever susceptible VP44, cheap insurance in my eyes. Good luck.

 

[bnbrown]

my concern is not for the rings, valves, etc... she still shut down nice and tight, no indication that there is any lessening of compression, no abnormal smoke except under exact circumstances which leads me to my conclusion that the VP is taking a long walk off that short plank. My personal opinion is that the VP is a good pump, for the most part I have had very good luck with it... provided you arent running fuelling boxes, or other items that increase the requirements on the VP44, and you do not introduce restrictions to the system, like plugged filters, or as I have found before, thin plastic wrapped around the ports on the banjo bolts. I replace my fuel filters pretty regularly (about every 10K) and am familiar with the behavior of a dead LP when it occurs. This particular truck (we just got it) the fuel filter was not just dirty, it was plugged, and who knows how long it had been like that. The oil is cleaning up nicely, but will take a change or two to get the tar out that was in it (we had it changed immediately, and is looking good). the truck does not burn any oil, nor any signs of excessive blowby.