New Truck! 2500 vs. 3500

[AH64ID]

O. K. Not to sound dumb but what do you mean "when the overloads are engaged"?



Mark

The overloads sit on top of the main leafs, and they dont get used until you have enough weight in the bed to compress the mains about 2-3 inches, so they are passive until "engaged"...

Your discussion forced me to pull out a handy 2008 Ram brochure.



What I found is here:

2500 GVWR 9,000# 3500 GVWR 10,100#

2500 GCWR 20000# 3500 GCWR 23000#



In every category of payload capacity and loaded trailer weight the 3500 has higher capacities.



I don't see a distinction made in the brochure I have between SRW and DRW and don't understand why but I'm only looking at the '08 models. I have a stack of older brochures and will look at them later.



Unfortunatly, the Dodge brochure is pretty light on actual details and I can't find tire size but just glancing at 2500 trucks next to 3500 SRW trucks I'm thinking the tires are smaller on 2500s. Can't prove that right now.



I think some of you who own 2500s are deceiving yourself when you claim your truck has as much capacity as a 3500. It doesn't make sense.



Harvey

Here is the 2005 data, 3500 is 3500 SRW data



3500 w/ 3. 73's (4. 10's have a higher rating)

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9900 lbs

Payload = 2641 lbs

Curb Weight = 7259 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6200 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 21000 lbs



2500

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 8800 lbs

Payload = 1757 lbs

Curb Weight = 7243 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs



GCWR is only 1K less, FAWR is the same, RAWR is 190lbs less (lack of overloads), GVWR is less (due to overloads)... .



Remember the frames are the same, and the OEM ratings are ratings, and suggestions... . if you have supplemental springs on a 2500 you can safely, IMHO, use the ratings of the 3500 SRW and not exceed any OEM specs. That is where the 2500 can be like a 3500 SRW. And honestly a 3500 DRW has the same frame, axles, etc... but can hold more over the rear axle due to tires. The stock tires on my truck are good for 3195 lbs ea, thats 6380, just 180 lbs more than the RAWR (so tires seem to be the limit), on a DRW thats 12760 in weight, and the RAWR is 9350 (which to me would be the axle/spring/frame limit)... so with that in mind I could go to 285/70/17 Toyo's and get a 3750 lb raitng per tire, that gives me the ability to safely load the rear to 7500 lbs, still within DRW ratings (same axle/frame/spring remember). . and will be even better when I ditch my overloads in favor of airbags.



Thats my interpretation of the ratings...

 

[Sean Flanagan]

The absolute only difference is the 3500 SRW has overload springs, also known as helpers. The 2500 has a just a spacer instead. A friend of mine has the 3500 srw. We closely compared with my 2500 and even the tires were the same.

 

[ERohloff]

I've got an '05 3500, Son a 04. 5 2500. Only physical difference's are 1. An overload leaf on the 3500. 2. Higher weight capacity door sticker on the 3500. 3. Cab lights on the 3500. 4. a "3" on the sides instead of a "2".

There may be one additional thing but not sure on the details. When I bought the '05 the paperwork guy said "You saved a little license fee money as the 3500 is a little cheaper to "plate" than the 2500's. They get a "Y" plate".

Don't know the details but my truck is a year newer than Son's and my plates are $50 cheaper. Both trucks licensed in the same town in MN. In fact we live 3 miles apart and neither is 'farm' rated... ... ... .....

 

[AH64ID]

The absolute only difference is the 3500 SRW has overload springs, also known as helpers. The 2500 has a just a spacer instead. A friend of mine has the 3500 srw. We closely compared with my 2500 and even the tires were the same.

What is this spacer? Is it to allow use of the same U bolts? I haven't noticed it on my dads 2500... but yeah, compared his 06 2500 to my 05 3500 SRW, overloads is really it... .

 

[GCross]

I believe the cost difference between a 3500 and a 2500, everything else being equal, is less then $100.

I paid $150 extra for the 3500 Single, since I wanted cab lights that would have cost $80 on the 2500 it was a no-brainer.



-George-

 

[Grizzly]

I paid $150 extra for the 3500 Single, since I wanted cab lights that would have cost $80 on the 2500 it was a no-brainer.



-George-

I thought cab lights were always included on all 3500's. I know they're standard equipped on a dually along with the bubble fender lights and tailgate lights.

 

[AMink]

My 3500 SRW did not come with the lights, which was fine. I think the DRW have to have them because of the width. Don't know how lights on the cab have anything to do with wide hips, but that's the law for ya... :-laf

 

[tom sweeney]

. . i opted to go with a 3500 SRW because i ASSUMED that at the very least,the brakes may be larger... not to mention the overall capacity... perhaps i was wrong about the brakes ,but i still do not regret my decision... . tom

 

[GCross]

I thought cab lights were always included on all 3500's. I know they're standard equipped on a dually along with the bubble fender lights and tailgate lights.

The 3500 did come with the cab lights, that was my point that they would have cost $80 extra on the 2500 so I paid an extra $150 to get the 3500 that came with them.



-George-

 

[ERohloff]

To my knowledge all 3500's (SRW and DRW's) come standard with cab lights unless this has changed in the last couple model years. Have never seen a 3500 w/o cab lights but you used to be able to order a "cab light delete" option but like I said, I've never seen one.

 

[DUBLR]

Bettter ride. Best thing I ever did was to put some energy suspension bump stops in place of factory ones (overload spring bump stops). Another member recommended. What a difference. With 2500 you are SOL.

 

[JRMora]

To my knowledge all 3500's (SRW and DRW's) come standard with cab lights unless this has changed in the last couple model years. Have never seen a 3500 w/o cab lights but you used to be able to order a "cab light delete" option but like I said, I've never seen one.

Not any more. All single wheel trucks have them as options, the duallies have them standard to meet FMVSS regs.

But remember a SRW 3500 has a higher tow rating than a 3500 DRW... .

I hear this one a lot. For fifth wheel towing, it just doesn't wash. From Dodge's 2007 ratings (the current website won't allow you to configure a dually?):



Here's why: 2007 Dodge Towing Guide

SRW GVWR: 10,100 lbs (3500 QC SLT 48RE/4. 10's)

Max Tow rating: 15,950 Weight: 6888 Payload: 3212 #



DRW GVWR: 12,200 lbs (3500 QC DRW SLT 48RE/4. 10's)

Max Tow Rating: 15,450 Weight: 7405 Payload: 4795 #



So, you'd say the SRW can haul a bigger trailer than a DRW (15,950# vs 15,450#), right? Let's assume we have two extra passengers (a 150# female and a 75# child), a fifth wheel hitch (200#), and about 250# of stuff. SRW: Weight: 7563 Payload: 2537 DRW: Weight: 8080 Payload: 4120



Now, let's say we buy a 35' fifth wheel and load it up to camp such that it weighs 13,500# ready to go (that's at least 2000# less than the "max Tow Rating, right?). Assume pin weight is 20% of trailer weight. Pin weight is then 13,500 x . 2 or 2700# (see where this is going?) Hook up the trailer, and the trucks now weigh: SRW: 7563 + 2700 = 10,263 (which is 163# OVER the GVWR) DRW: 8080 + 2700 = 10,780 (which is 1420# UNDER the GVWR) Note that in this example, the trailer was more than 2000# LESS than the "Maximum trailer rating" in bothcases, but in the case of the SRW truck, it still put the truck over the top.



So, the dually, with it's higher payload capacity, can pull a heavier trailer and stay within all ratings (especially GVWR). This is why I never go by the "max trailer rating" you see splashed all over the ads. It's just not a meaningful claim.



YMMV



Juan

 

[HBarlow]

Juan Mora's clear and consise example above is very revealing and should be considered by anyone buying a truck with even an idea of ever owning/towing a fifth wheel recreational trailer or gooseneck trailer.



His example essentially rules out any SRW pickup but he did not go on to address the GAWR issue. It is also revealing.



My own medium-sized fifth wheel, the Hitchhiker in my signature, has a GVWR of 14,100 pounds and, as is pretty typical, that is also the light to moderately loaded travel weight. It has a second A/C unit over the bedroom and an Onan 5500 watt generator in the forward compartment. Pin weight is 3500-3600 pounds which is 25% of GVWR. Adding that 3600 pounds to the rear axle of any 2500/3500SRW pickup is almost certainly going to overload the rear tires.



Harvey

 

[AH64ID]

Juan Mora's clear and consise example above is very revealing and should be considered by anyone buying a truck with even an idea of ever owning/towing a fifth wheel recreational trailer or gooseneck trailer.



His example essentially rules out any SRW pickup but he did not go on to address the GAWR issue. It is also revealing.



My own medium-sized fifth wheel, the Hitchhiker in my signature, has a GVWR of 14,100 pounds and, as is pretty typical, that is also the light to moderately loaded travel weight. It has a second A/C unit over the bedroom and an Onan 5500 watt generator in the forward compartment. Pin weight is 3500-3600 pounds which is 25% of GVWR. Adding that 3600 pounds to the rear axle of any 2500/3500SRW pickup is almost certainly going to overload the rear tires.



Harvey

Bingo... I dont disagree with anything said... . The rating is higher, but depending on the application the DRW will be able to tow more, if you care about limits... . Putting a size larger tire on will give you a lot more tire capacity. . IMHO if I dont overload my tires I will be fine...

 

[HBarlow]

Bingo... I dont disagree with anything said... . The rating is higher, but depending on the application the DRW will be able to tow more, if you care about limits... . Putting a size larger tire on will give you a lot more tire capacity. . IMHO if I dont overload my tires I will be fine...

Only if you also upgrade the wheels. The weakest or lowest rated component will always be the limiting factor. A set of 19. 5" wheels and G or H rated tires would probably provide enough carrying capacity.



Harvey

 

[AH64ID]

Only if you also upgrade the wheels. The weakest or lowest rated component will always be the limiting factor. A set of 19. 5" wheels and G or H rated tires would probably provide enough carrying capacity.

Harvey

Do you know what the OEM alum are rated at? I have seen alum go from 3200-3600+... . I need to look next time i have them off.

 

[HBarlow]

No, I don't. The two Dodge Rams I've owned have been duallys with steel wheels. I may be 100% wrong but the figure 3400# comes to mind as the OEM steel wheel rating.



Harvey

 

[Grizzly]

Not any more. All single wheel trucks have them as options, the duallies have them standard to meet FMVSS regs.



I hear this one a lot. For fifth wheel towing, it just doesn't wash. From Dodge's 2007 ratings (the current website won't allow you to configure a dually?): ... ... .

Juan

Very good and informative post Juan.



My brother-in-law purchased an 08 Ferd SuperDuty F350 SRW and he paid extra for the cab clearance lights. My son ordered an 04. 5 3500 SRW and the lights were included.



How's life in Georgia?

 

[DHeidloff]

The overloads sit on top of the main leafs, and they dont get used until you have enough weight in the bed to compress the mains about 2-3 inches, so they are passive until "engaged"...







Here is the 2005 data, 3500 is 3500 SRW data



3500 w/ 3. 73's (4. 10's have a higher rating)

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9900 lbs

Payload = 2641 lbs

Curb Weight = 7259 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6200 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 21000 lbs



2500

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 8800 lbs

Payload = 1757 lbs

Curb Weight = 7243 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs



GCWR is only 1K less, FAWR is the same, RAWR is 190lbs less (lack of overloads), GVWR is less (due to overloads)... .



Remember the frames are the same, and the OEM ratings are ratings, and suggestions... . if you have supplemental springs on a 2500 you can safely, IMHO, use the ratings of the 3500 SRW and not exceed any OEM specs. That is where the 2500 can be like a 3500 SRW. And honestly a 3500 DRW has the same frame, axles, etc... but can hold more over the rear axle due to tires. The stock tires on my truck are good for 3195 lbs ea, thats 6380, just 180 lbs more than the RAWR (so tires seem to be the limit), on a DRW thats 12760 in weight, and the RAWR is 9350 (which to me would be the axle/spring/frame limit)... so with that in mind I could go to 285/70/17 Toyo's and get a 3750 lb raitng per tire, that gives me the ability to safely load the rear to 7500 lbs, still within DRW ratings (same axle/frame/spring remember). . and will be even better when I ditch my overloads in favor of airbags.



Thats my interpretation of the ratings...

You left out the Wheel load ratings. They would need to be equal to or better that the TOYO 285/75R17 tire.

My set up is

2004. 5 LB SRW 3500 with Timbrens helpers and 19. 5 Hankooks DH01 tires. When I haul my 10'9" Lance I am running 7400lbs on my drives and I sit just above level in the rear, When I hoof op my Tork Lift hitch extension to my super hitch and hook up the boat I am running 8300lbs on the Drives and the truck sits level. Problem with being a engineer it is all about the numbers.



Doug

 

[DHeidloff]

Do you know what the OEM alum are rated at? I have seen alum go from 3200-3600+... . I need to look next time i have them off. [/QUOTE]



Load rating is not on the rims.