New truck - aux tank in bed - fuel pump problems

[tractorseller]

I just bought a 2005 CTD 3500 DRW Laramie 6spd quad cab. I had an auxiliary tank installed in the bed, and the fuel pump they installed started making noise. Took it back and they installed another - it made noise too :{ . The pump acts like it's pumping too much fuel and getting bogged down. Hard noise to explain, but it's loud and irritating . The guy at the tank place is stumped. It's the first aux tank he's installed on one of the new Dodge in-tank lift-pump setups. The aux tank pump is an AC/Delco and supposedly puts out 60psi. The Dodge dealer I bought the truck from claims that the factory pump puts out 58psi and that 2psi either side of that is acceptable. I've run out of ideas - anybody else have similar problems with running an auxiliary tank with this new in-tank factory lift pump setup? The tank guy offered me a full refund, but then I have no tank and I have holes in my bed so that's unacceptable to me.



This is my first Dodge, I've always run Powerstrokes and my last 2 trucks were Duramaxes (both 2003 models). GM had to buy one back from me after it was into the dealer 8 times for the same problem in the first 6 months I had it. This last Duramax has been a good truck for the most part. After 1,500 miles driving the new Dodge though, 1,000 of which were pulling a big stack of trailers back from Oklahoma, I love this truck. It doesn't have all the toys that my Chev LT has, even though I got the Laramie H package, but it's all truck and as the trip went on I could feel the Cummins getting more and more powerful. It started pulling grades more easily as the trip went on. This forum was invaluable in helping me make my decision to buy a Dodge.

 

[robertyoke]

wow 60 psi for an electrical pump that is high. Most aftermarket lift pumps are less than 30psi and if they last people are happy.
how come they dont just put a new/diffrent pump in your tank and see if that takes care of it, maybe you just have a bad pump.
also is the pump mounted inside the aux tank or is it mounted to the frame, I ask 'cause the frame on these trucks is like a big bell and any noise will resonate through the whole truck.
-robert

 

[LightmanE300]

I suggest you have it set up via gravity feed like a lot of us do. Very simple, no pumps - simply install a ball valve on the bottom of the tank, run a hose down to your fuel overflow tube via a T, and you're golden. Yes you have to flip a little valve, but there is nothing to break, and if you leave the valve open, your tank/gauge is full until the aux tank is empty. Works great. Not legal for gasoline setups.

 

[tractorseller]

I'll run that gravity feed idea by the installer. Not sure how that would work though with the main tank having the pump inside it. I'm not sure how the injector pump would have enough fuel pushed to it. I know simple is better, but I think the gravity feed will only work on the older trucks with the frame mounted lift pump closer to the injector pump?



Robert - the pump is mounted inside the aux tank. He put 2 brand new pumps in it and they both made the same noise. The tank is aluminum, so I know a little noise is normal, but this thing is LOUD. There is definitely some type of design flaw here. I did run it 1,000 miles on the aux tank and the truck performed fine... ... ... Bud

 

[MMeier]

Tractorseller, I run my aux. tank off a Carter fuel pump and is plumbed into my vent line. Also I run a filter off the aux. tank and a ball valve to shut off flow when not needed. Gravity feed tanks are a big no no, especially when running commercially like you are. Where you located, I run between Vegas and Midwest City Okla. on a regular basis, run flatbed car haulers!!

 

[juicedcummins]

I've been thinking about installing my tank also and was a little stumped on how to get around the in- tank pump. I'm trying to fiqure out a way to use a solinoid valve to switch tanks. When the tanks are swithed I'd like to see the factory pump shut off when running on the aux and vice versa. By doing it this way you would not be stuck on the side off the road because of a lift pump.

 

[Kirwin]

In tank fuel pump???

tractorseller, juicedcummins, who told you you had an in tank fuel pump on your Cummins powered truck? Unless your truck is different than any other Cummins out there your lift pump is on the side of the fuel filter if its a 24 valve or on the side of the block if its a 12 valve. Diesels do not use an in tank fuel pump. Unless this is something they changed for 2005? Only gassers use an in the tank fuel pump. Most lift pumps put out less that 30 psig with 20-25 being normal on most 12 valves. Hope this helps. Ken Irwin

 

[tractorseller]

Ken - It's definitely in the fuel tank. Crawl under it, turn on the key, and listen to it hum if you're around a newer truck. My truck was born in September 2004. The installer didn't believe it either when I told him until he crawled under the truck and heard it for himself. He came back out with that look on his face like "I can't believe that". He told me my truck was the first one he'd seen and that the Dodge Rodeo reps had just recently told him there weren't any factory lift pumps being installed in tanks. They were wrong. There is no pump anywhere near the filter housing.



MMeier - I'm in Arizona. I mostly deal in smaller tractors and front loaders, but once in awhile I run to Oklahoma and pick up a stack of trailers just to keep my tractor customers happy. I haven't figured out how to get my information to show up under my name yet. Are you running stacks of trailers? I've been getting them hauled to me for $1. 35 a mile from some outfit there in Oklahoma.



juicedcummins - my setup does have a switch and the lift pump in the main tank is cut off when I'm running off the aux tank. Maybe the dealership is wrong about the PSI on the main lift pump though??? I bought the truck from Chaprell Dodge in Ada, OK.

 

[MMeier]

tractorseller, yes, I run stacks out of Midwest City Okla. ( just east of downtown OKC) PM me or enable your E- mail and I'll send you some pics of what I pull out this way!! Mark

 

[juicedcummins]

Hey Kirwin, If you are not up to date maybe you should leave the keyboard alone! Most of us would not post something unless we knew what we were talking about. [unlike you]

 

[rbattelle]

Hey Kirwin, If you are not up to date maybe you should leave the keyboard alone! Most of us would not post something unless we knew what we were talking about. [unlike you]

Ouch! Easy, Juiced, I'm sure Ken meant well.



From everything I've read it's true that the '05 trucks use an in-tank lift pump. Many consider this to be the "final solution" to the lift pump problem. Are you guys sure about the 60 psi on the stock lift pump? Seems awful high...



-Ryan

 

[DIESELMAN]

You should look at the transfer flow UFS controller, I have two and they are great. From the In-Bed tank, the Pump output and the overflow both terminate into the ventline. If the pump were to stick on, fuel would simply flow back into the aux tank, as long as the cap is on of course.



This setup has no back pressure on the pump and it will last a long time. The display on my dash tells me how many gallons are in each tank, and the total, and no switches or valves are required.



TransferFlow



BTW, I have a September '04 truck with BOTH in tank and lift on the filter housing.

 

[rbattelle]

BTW, I have a September '04 truck with BOTH in tank and lift on the filter housing.

You've mentioned that before, and that is awesome. I'd say it's a safe bet you'll NEVER have any CP-3/lift pump supply problems (hope I didn't jinx you by saying that)!!



-Ryan

 

[juicedcummins]

These lift pumps are not proven yet. So in my case it is just as easy to run a dual setup independently and never be stuck on the road anywhere never mind in the middle of nowhere. I've have had the solonoid valves on the last 3 pickups, logging over 600k and never once a problem. New truck gets a new Polak 6 port valve upon rig-up every time.

 

[mgratner]

I have an 04. 5 with a 48 gal. aux. tank that is gravity fed. On second tank. Works great. The fuel gague stays full until fuel starts being used in the factory tank. Just my . 02 worth.



Mike

 

[Kirwin]

Ouch I guess

Hey Kirwin, If you are not up to date maybe you should leave the keyboard alone! Most of us would not post something unless we knew what we were talking about. [unlike you]

Juicedcummins, I did not intend to mislead anyone with respect to the in tank fuel pump. I thought that I qualified my statement with the statement "Unless this is something that they changed for 2005?" The TDR is for sharing ideas. No one proclaims to know everything. If I post incorrect information here and someone on the TDR knows the correct information they are usually quick to post a correction as tractorseller did. I have known several Dodge diesel owners that bought what the dealer parts department said that they needed for over $300 to fix a fuel tank level gage sending unit failure, and when they got their fuel tank module out of the tank they realiized that what they had been sold was one for a gas powered truck with a in tank fuel pump. Have a great Cummins day. Ken Irwin

 

[ceaman]

I suggest you have it set up via gravity feed like a lot of us do. Very simple, no pumps - simply install a ball valve on the bottom of the tank, run a hose down to your fuel overflow tube via a T, and you're golden. Yes you have to flip a little valve, but there is nothing to break, and if you leave the valve open, your tank/gauge is full until the aux tank is empty. Works great. Not legal for gasoline setups.

Not legal for deisel set up either... . DOT rules prohibit all gravity feed set ups!

 

[juicedcummins]

Kirwin, What made it misleading to me was the fact that the 1'st 4 lines had nothing to do with an o5 @ all. The editing after the fact makes it look like you had withdrawn something. [maybe that is when the disclaimer went in].

If you did not know why bother to answer?@

No big deal rattle on!

 

[LightmanE300]

Not legal for deisel set up either... . DOT rules prohibit all gravity feed set ups!

I don't believe that to be competely true at all. Depends how it's set up, has to be properly vented. Also , unless you're pulling commercially or huge loads , the average person will never encounter a DOT officer.



Tractorseller - you CAN run gravity- I have gravity feed on my 04 and so do a lot of other members. It simply feeds into the main tank - not to the engine. The pump and engine work as they normally do. All it does is drain into the main tank via the filler neck, as if you were filling at the station. I have a racor 2 micron filter between the two tanks , as well as venting with a 2 micron foam air breather/filter. Works great, NOTHING to break or go wrong.

 

[jelag]

I have several trucks with in bed tanks... . each feeds to fuel filter and fuel pump and check ball that is frame mounted... . The check ball is set at 1 psi and prevents the flow when the fuel pump is off... . the output from the check ball goes to a fitting in the filler spout that we installed... . we drill the filler spout when it's on the bench and thread it with 3/8 npt. We thread in a 3/8" hose to 3/8" pipe and solder it to the fill tube and than use a heavy layer of JB Weld to coat it... . we now have this with over 300K on one of our trucks... the switch is dash mounted...



The fuel flows through the filter to the pump through the check ball to the main tank. .



I'm going to have to look under my 04 and 05 and see if they have different lift pumps. . Interesting comments above...