New user 5 spd ??

[CHayes]

hey there all. I have been surfing the forrum for a while and finialy figured out how to use it. Now to the question. I have a 91' D250 with the getrag in it. I would like to start truck pulling with it but $ and weather are dictating the project(the garage isnt heated). I have a 97' p pump engine in the truck right now with a south bend conFE clutch behind it. a 2ND gen intercooler is in the works to go in too. Will the getrag hold up for this or should I start saving my pennies now for a NV4500 swap??? How much HP are you guys putting through these with out breaking anything? Or are they breaking? Aslo if I ease into the power verus clutch dropps what can I expect?? Any thoughts concerns or general advice would be greatly appreciated Thanks for all the help Caleb

 

[1stgen4evr]

The man you need to answer your questions is Michael Miller. He pulls and he uses a Getrag. The torque rating on the Getrag is better than the NV. You will need to learn the Getrag and it pecularities. Nothing is bullet proof.



James

 

[CSchafer]

I think you will have problems with the clutch first. When pulling you have to slip the clutch to take off, the fe wont like that. If you run a low enough gear to just take off your clutch might be ok and your trans will be fine but you wont do all that well. As far as the trans go's, I've beat the living crap out of mine over and over with no problems. I finally broke the case when the driveshaft broke with the trans still operating perfectly, in case you were wondering about my sig

 

[CHayes]

Thanks for the input here guys. So do I need to go to a twin disk clutch to be able to slip it when i take off then? Any suggestions on clutches mitchel? south bend? or anyone else? Also what gear are you pulling in? thanks for all the help Caleb

 

[MMiller]

Like Cade said, your current clutch will not like the slipping on take off. To be competitive with any street class even you will need to be able to leave the line in 3rd gear. Second is way too slow to even come close to any late model trucks. So to be able to pull 3rd gear, you will need a twin disc clutch. Mitchells are probably about the only guys that have a twin disc for the getrag input shaft. The SBC dual discs are only available for the larger input shaft. Now this leads to the next part of the equation, the input itself. Most guys with NV4500's in pulliing go with the bigger input shaft.



This all being said, the Getrag IMO would be up to any task that the NV4500 would do, barring input shaft failure. Need to find out how many guys failed the smaller input shaft in pulling. You also need to decide how much power you are going for/class you want to run in. DRHA I think requires SFI certification on the clutch, the last I knew, Mitchells were not certified.



What rear end gear do you have?

What transfer case are you going to use?

What power are you going to run at?

Where are you going after that, bigger?



Also remember that with the getrag you are going into fairly uncharted territory, I'm running about 250 RWHP and 600 FT lbs of torque through my getrag, and tow heavy, hook up once in a while, and have had a couple failures in the getrag. One was a bearing, and one was my goofup. Its back to running and putting up with my assaults again. There's guys running a bunch more power then that through the getrag, but its mainly for dynos. Not any getrag pullers that I know of at least.



If I were a rich man, or at least not married and had children, I'd be building a ve pumped, getrag shifted pulling truck, all wrapped in first gen sheetmetal.



Michael

 

[CHayes]

Right now I am trying to set up the drive line before I turn up the power. I want to be able to pull before I drop any of the drive line on the track. Right now I have the stock dana 70 rear end with 3. 54 gears. I have the origanal transfer case that was in the truck. (not sure what # it is) I would like to get up into the 400-500 HP range in the near future.

Ultimately I would like to get up into the 600-700 HP range but the way things are going its going to be a long time before I can get that far. i am married and own a house so that puts a damper on anthing that requires lots of $$$ like a pulling truck. (The wife is supportive of the truck and wouldnt let me sell it)

Im trying to start off slow and make the mods that will hold up and not break the bank. in my area the only class is a "steet" diesel. But some of these guys are into the 600+hp. "street" just means it has a liscence plate and tabs on it. i guess ill have to check the rules for my area to see what clutch I could run. Also what frame/ chassis mods do you run if any ie ladder bars or anything else??? Yes I agree on the first gen pulling truck so simple to work on and lots of room for extra parts ie TURBOS... at a later time



Thanks for all the help Caleb

 

[MMiller]

Start looking for a dana 80 right now. The 70 will last for a while, but the pinion will fail. When you get the dana 80, get a detroit locker and good axle shafts. Spend your money on the rear end, the 60 front will be good, you could add a lockright locker or a detroit for the front later. HOWEVER, it has been proven around here if you have a locker in the rear, and keep the truck from twisting alot, both front tires pull pretty even.



If you have the original t-case, its a New Process 205. Pretty stout unit in its own respect, with only a 1. 96 low range. Gasser trucks start breaking them pretty regular at the 800+ hp mark. If you want the drive train to last, make smooth pulls, no bouncing. Also, if you run any component to distruction(the dana 70) when it breaks, the whole drive line is shocked hard, and other stuff starts breaking. I really don't know what other option you have, as the late model trucks drive the front diff on the drivers side. If you get to breaking the 205, ProFab has parts to make the 205 bullet proof.



Ladder bars are a very good idea, especially with the 6" blocks in the rear of our trucks. If the rules allow, I'd run suspension blocks in the rear too, to keep the rear from squating.



Also if rules allow, get some weight up front. A good Reunel winch bumper/grill gaurd will add 300# to the front end. Also an adjustable hitch is a good idea, as far forward as possible(ie near to the tailgate).



Your going to need as many rpms as you can get. Ask pump gurus here, about governor springs, wieghts, mods, etc... ... .



Michael

 

[CHayes]

How long of ladder bars should I run and wear do I attatch them top or bottom of the axel? Any good pics out here on how to make your own? Now susspension blocks? your talking blocks that are bolted to the frame so when the suspension squats it hits the axel? What else can I do to help keep the frame from twisting/ bouncing? Also on those mitchel clutches is Enterprise engine the guys who make them?

Thanks for the input Caleb

 

[MMiller]

How long of ladder bars should I run and wear do I attatch them top or bottom of the axel? Any good pics out here on how to make your own? Now susspension blocks? your talking blocks that are bolted to the frame so when the suspension squats it hits the axel? What else can I do to help keep the frame from twisting/ bouncing? Also on those mitchel clutches is Enterprise engine the guys who make them?

Thanks for the input Caleb

I can't help you much on ladder bars, I'm in the process of buying some for my 75. They will hook to the top and bottom of the axle.



Yes, you have the right idea on the blocks. I actually jack up the rear bumper of my truck, install the blocks, and set the truck back down. The blocks are tight just sitting still. I do know there are some places that require 1" of travel, not around here. READ THE RULES FIRST!!



Don't be suprised if you have to make different setups for different pulls. Blocks here, no bars there, 1" of suspension travel here, no front weights there, gotta drive it to this pull, and then the places with no rules.



Good ladder bars, good hitch, and rear locker keep the frame from twisting up. Smooth operator helps a bunch too. Find the area truck that runs the best, pulls the smoothest, and go look over his truck!



Don't know who makes/made Mitchell's clutches.



Michael

 

[CHayes]

Thanks for all the help. yea I need to get a hold of the rules for my area and see what I can do to the truck. What tpye of locker do you sugest? limmited slip? or are there others? Or just put all that into a dana 80? Any one know how the twin disc clutches work as far as slipping them vs a single disc? I would think there would be a lot of extra heat/ ware on a twin disk while slipping it to take off.

Thanks again for all the help Caleb

 

[MMiller]

Theres two options for the dana 80 and truck pulling. Detroit locker or mini spool. Mini spools bring on the suck, while driving on the street IMHO. A factory limited slip will fail the spider gears often.



I know of no single disk clutches for a diesel application for truck pulling. Ram makes them for gassers, but gassers make hp at high rpms, diesels will drive through a clutch from the lower rpms and torque. Yes there will be heat, but a good twin disc will take the torture. Every so many hooks a twin disc will be removed and sent in for freshening up. The harder you launch, the more pulls you go to, and the power you are at regulate when the clutch will need to be pulled apart. Most guys even pulling every weekend make them last a season with some adjustments during the year. Hopefully my mild gasser has a twin disc before the season starts.



Michael

 

[CHayes]

I found the rules for my area. they are not real specific. I dont think they look under the hood eather. there is at least 1 guy who is running twins and I dont think they are "stock" turbos.





STOCK DIESEL



1) No weight bars on front; must have front bumper, and weight added must be in pickup box. Dual tires allowed.



2) Must pull off of rear bumper or trailer hitch, and be licensed.



3) Maximum of one turbocharger allowed.



4) No aftermarket intake manifolds, no aftermarket turbochargers.



5) No added pressurized fuel additives allowed. This includes LP and nitrous.



6) Trucks may be inspected before being allowed to pull.



STOCK CLASS MEANS STOCK TRUCKS, NO MODIFICATIONS.

+ all general safty rules as well



I was talking to the Catco guy at work yesterday and he thought they could put a twin disc clutch together for around 650-$700? any thoughts on that vs a proven mitchel or south bend? Not sure about shelling out $1750+++ for those others but every one says they are the way to go.....



Also what are mini spools ive seen them on enterprises web page but not sure how they work? If I remember correctly also very spendy too. What happens when the truck is street driven with the spools to make them suck?

Thanks again for all the help.



Caleb