Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) New vs. Older DD injectors

[d90boy]

Is there any difference between DD2s made 2 years ago and ones you'd buy today? Friend of mine can use a 2 year old set with 25,000 miles on them or buy a new set, is there a difference?

 

[Devildog]

No difference same specs and standards.

 

[BPINE]

I wouldn't bet on that you better call DD.

 

[MikeR]

Big difference!!! But only if the old ones happen to be black body injectors compared to the grey bodies they use nowadays.



I have original series black body stage 2's and they outpower todays stage 3 injectors. In fact, I swapped in a set of supermentals and dynoed, then I swapped my stage 2's back in and dynoed, and my 2's only dynoed 3hp behind supermentals. I verified this by dynoing side by side with a supermetal equipped truck, and my stage 2 equipped truck only dynoed 9hp behind it. I couldn't justify spending money on today's injectors for me.

When I reported my dyno numbers to DD, they said they were 'generous' back in the days of the black injectors.



Obviously, if they are grey bodies, then there's no difference. The transition was sometime about 2 years ago.



-Mike

 

[HVAC]

Mike's Right

For a while DD had two versions of injectors. The black ones were stronger by 20 horsepower in my case. The black injectors were earmarked for the manuel trans rigs ("M" version), while the standard injectors were considered appropriate for the auto transmission trucks ("A" injectors).



The black injectors produced more smoke then some folks were comfortable with, so DD decided to discontinue them rather then disappoint customers.

 

[JR2]

Any one have a set of old black smokey DD'3 they want to sell me???

 

[d90boy]

Thanks for the replies guys, sounds like he can stick with what he has, they're the stage II for an ETH which says automatic transmission on them.

 

[John]

... however, a call to DD and they will tell you that the DD3s they produce today will net the very same HP results as the older versions.



It's called product improvement... same horsepower without the excess smoke.



Mike, what you stated is not exactly true...



when you switched out your DD2s and installed the borrowed DD Super Mentals, YOU ALSO INSTALLED a borrowed HX40 from Bill Kondolay with a turbine housing Piers said was pretty bogus. Remember? Big difference over your stock HX35! Several other NW BOMBers specifically remember this... BD Dyno Days... October 2001... ring a bell? Remember spending most of the day wrenching on your Ram with all those borrowed parts so you could kick a$$ on everyone else? Apples and oranges sounds more like it.



In addition, you know the story behind a small segment of DD2s and DD3s... they were never meant to hit the market!





Should be a good show at Diesel Thunder II in Spokane! Jim (Fuller) will be there and Jason (Burton) installed a new clutch... and by now he should have the 5th gear nut problem resolved for good (this time)!

 

[MikeR]

John,

What you are saying is right for the first time I tried the supermentals on the dyno at BD. I did the rest of my testing back at Tacoma and dynoed several times with both doth setups. No other members exept for Bob Wag were there, and another time I went alone. When I was only 9hp behind the SM equiped truck, everything was identical... box%, timing, turbos, exhaust.

I'm not making any comparisons to an HX35 equipped truck, but if you want to do rough subtraction with the borrowed gear vs my current gear compared to the stock HX35, I still come up with 26hp for turbo, and within 9hp of injectors.



If you want me to prove it again I can, but I don't think need to 'cause I already know what it'll do.



Don't kid yourself on the power difference. Ask Keith sometime... you have to specifically mention the blackies or they'll never tell you about them. The old blackies did more than what they claimed and puked lots of smoke. They had to scale back the power and smoke until the injectors powered what DD claimed. Now they put out exactly what DD claims



That's why back in the early days, guys with 3's were reporting 110-130hp gains and 2's were 90-110. Remember Porky's truck? That was one I can remember laying incredible #'s with just old stage 3's... something like a 125hp gain. He'll never see that with grey 3's.



JR,

Good luck in finding someone who'll cut loose a set of original blackies. They'd have to find a bigger injector to replace them, especially at the cost the blackies were at. 600-700 bucks compared to 1000 bucks for a very small hp difference. That's why I couldn't justify jumping into SM's.

It took a very long time, but I did find a set of black 3's and they will be coming my way next month (my black 2's are already spoken for).



-Mike

 

[zstroken]

black, gunmetal gray,light gray or what??

are they actually black, or just a gunmetal gray?? ISB003?? is that a newer "gray" DD3 part number?? Thanks for the help

 

[MikeR]

z,

The black bodies are very black, just like the suspension pieces on your truck. The greys are a med-dark grey.

 

[zstroken]

part numbers the same

are the part numbers the same??