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Newb - insight appreciated
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Well, the Cummins. Obviously 
Having driven them both (I'll compare 2016 Dodge to 2017 Ford):
The Dodge feels heavier on the road - to me this is a good thing. It was a little more sure footed towing a 33' airstream when being passed by a semi, or passing as semi. Fuel mileage was a bit better.
The Dodge exhaust brake is FAR superior to the Ford. I could barely notice that the ford was working. The Dodge will really slow the truck down.
I won't enter the war between the two. I suspect the Dodge would be easier to work on (go look under a Ford hood). I think Ford builds a quality truck, and I suspect the frame, body, and front end would hold up better on a Ford. Beyond those guesses, its a matter of preference in interior, etc. They both are nice trucks to drive.
Having driven them both (I'll compare 2016 Dodge to 2017 Ford):
The Dodge feels heavier on the road - to me this is a good thing. It was a little more sure footed towing a 33' airstream when being passed by a semi, or passing as semi. Fuel mileage was a bit better.
The Dodge exhaust brake is FAR superior to the Ford. I could barely notice that the ford was working. The Dodge will really slow the truck down.
I won't enter the war between the two. I suspect the Dodge would be easier to work on (go look under a Ford hood). I think Ford builds a quality truck, and I suspect the frame, body, and front end would hold up better on a Ford. Beyond those guesses, its a matter of preference in interior, etc. They both are nice trucks to drive.
Well, the Cummins. Obviously
Having driven them both (I'll compare 2016 Dodge to 2017 Ford):
The Dodge feels heavier on the road - to me this is a good thing. It was a little more sure footed towing a 33' airstream when being passed by a semi, or passing as semi. Fuel mileage was a bit better.
The Dodge exhaust brake is FAR superior to the Ford. I could barely notice that the ford was working. The Dodge will really slow the truck down.
I won't enter the war between the two. I suspect the Dodge would be easier to work on (go look under a Ford hood). I think Ford builds a quality truck, and I suspect the frame, body, and front end would hold up better on a Ford. Beyond those guesses, its a matter of preference in interior, etc. They both are nice trucks to drive.
Having driven them both (I'll compare 2016 Dodge to 2017 Ford):
The Dodge feels heavier on the road - to me this is a good thing. It was a little more sure footed towing a 33' airstream when being passed by a semi, or passing as semi. Fuel mileage was a bit better.
The Dodge exhaust brake is FAR superior to the Ford. I could barely notice that the ford was working. The Dodge will really slow the truck down.
I won't enter the war between the two. I suspect the Dodge would be easier to work on (go look under a Ford hood). I think Ford builds a quality truck, and I suspect the frame, body, and front end would hold up better on a Ford. Beyond those guesses, its a matter of preference in interior, etc. They both are nice trucks to drive.
I hear ya on the starting a war, please know that is not my intention.
I just find it odd that I can buy a 2015/2016 2500 with less miles for much less than I can a F250 with similar package. I guess I should add some info, I like both trucks and having owned the Powerstroke and I wondered how it compared to the Cummins. I am sure both will get 250k-300k miles if taken care of but what sets the Cummins apart from the Powerstroke? I will say I do like the look of the 2500 better but I like the interior of the F250 better.
I just find it odd that I can buy a 2015/2016 2500 with less miles for much less than I can a F250 with similar package. I guess I should add some info, I like both trucks and having owned the Powerstroke and I wondered how it compared to the Cummins. I am sure both will get 250k-300k miles if taken care of but what sets the Cummins apart from the Powerstroke? I will say I do like the look of the 2500 better but I like the interior of the F250 better.
To start, there are 33% more moving parts in the powerstroke. I'm not sure if it is too early to tell on cost of ownership. I think there are a few threads from people with over 200K on their 6.7 Cummins so you can see what's been done.
It took a year or two for people to tell you to run away from a 6.0 powerstroke. I think the 6.7 Cummins is proven at this point. I'm not sure how long the 6.7 Powerstroke has been out, but finding 200K threads on Ford forums would be a good start to understanding its problems.
I'd also consider how much you may want to do yourself as far as work. My understanding is that for the Ford you end up pulling the cab for a lot of work. Easy if you're a trained dealer with all the right tools and lifts, nearly impossible if you're a shadetree mechanic.
I'm moving up from a 12v recently into a 6.7 (2012). I'm still impressed with Cummins' ability to design an engine that I can do some work on. And my hands fit, and I don't need to contort my body quite as much.
It took a year or two for people to tell you to run away from a 6.0 powerstroke. I think the 6.7 Cummins is proven at this point. I'm not sure how long the 6.7 Powerstroke has been out, but finding 200K threads on Ford forums would be a good start to understanding its problems.
I'd also consider how much you may want to do yourself as far as work. My understanding is that for the Ford you end up pulling the cab for a lot of work. Easy if you're a trained dealer with all the right tools and lifts, nearly impossible if you're a shadetree mechanic.
I'm moving up from a 12v recently into a 6.7 (2012). I'm still impressed with Cummins' ability to design an engine that I can do some work on. And my hands fit, and I don't need to contort my body quite as much.
I can't speak to the ford on maintenance. But here's my take:
On my old 98 12v I did just about everything myself over the years (oil, fuel, starter, water pump, alternator, etc). It was stupid simple.
On my new one, I haven't had to do much yet, but I did an oil and fuel filter change (easy, and for some reason some people say its not, but it is...). I also did the 65K service for the EGR and such. I found it relatively easy as well. The rest looks pretty much the same. A bit tighter, but not over complicated.
I can't speak to the Ford - maybe someone else on here has a better idea of how hard or easy it is with the blue oval.
On my old 98 12v I did just about everything myself over the years (oil, fuel, starter, water pump, alternator, etc). It was stupid simple.
On my new one, I haven't had to do much yet, but I did an oil and fuel filter change (easy, and for some reason some people say its not, but it is...). I also did the 65K service for the EGR and such. I found it relatively easy as well. The rest looks pretty much the same. A bit tighter, but not over complicated.
I can't speak to the Ford - maybe someone else on here has a better idea of how hard or easy it is with the blue oval.
What does Cummins do??? They build engines!!! Cummins durable CP3 pump Ford problematic CP4.
Cummins is a TRUE Medium Duty engine couple that to the MD AISIN and you have an unbeatable combo.
Cummins Made in USA, PowerStroke Made in Mexico.
Try looking at a higher level RAM if you think the Ford has a better interior. Not many people think Ford's are better comparing apples to apples.
Cummins is a TRUE Medium Duty engine couple that to the MD AISIN and you have an unbeatable combo.
Cummins Made in USA, PowerStroke Made in Mexico.
Try looking at a higher level RAM if you think the Ford has a better interior. Not many people think Ford's are better comparing apples to apples.
Cummins2014
TDR MEMBER
After spending many years with a Superduty, I think the Ford has the Ram beat in EVERY category, but ONE ,The CUMMINS, which for me is the ONLY reason I have one .
We can compare mirrors, paint, interiors etc etc, and IMO Ford just builds a better truck fit, and finish, but its all arguable, but the Cummins.
GrantP
TDR MEMBER
I can relate as I was raised a Ford guy. I had a 96 F-350 with their beloved 7.3. The truck never gave me any grief and looked beautiful but the 7.3 cost me thousands. I dumped it at 115k. Switched to my 97 12V, truck gave me all sorts of grief with broken plastic, bad paint, and constantly throwing parts at the front end. The Cummins cost me a pair of starter contacts and a solenoid relay after 200k.
I'm sticking with Cummins but my 06 is starting to nickel and dime me on dumb stuff like the 97 did. Hopefully the 4th gens are better. Neither of my Cummins trucks have ever had a serious problem with the engine.
SnoKing
TDR MEMBER
The Ford will have a better transmission than what comes in a RAM 2500. The RAM will have a better engine than what comes in the Ford.
Look for a 3500 SRW RAM with Aisin Transmission. Noted by the transmission dipstick on the drivers side of the engine for Aisin and on the passengers side of the inhouse 68RFE. The Aisin is a medium duty truck transmission and has a lower 1st and 2nd gear that work well with the 3:42 geared SRW trucks. BTW the 13 2500 is the earlier frame design, as 2500 did not get the newer upgraded frame until MY 2014.
Each year added little nice "things". Like the 2016 got front park sense sensors and ability to move camera's between displays etc. 15's have things that the 13 and 14 do not.
SNOKING
Look for a 3500 SRW RAM with Aisin Transmission. Noted by the transmission dipstick on the drivers side of the engine for Aisin and on the passengers side of the inhouse 68RFE. The Aisin is a medium duty truck transmission and has a lower 1st and 2nd gear that work well with the 3:42 geared SRW trucks. BTW the 13 2500 is the earlier frame design, as 2500 did not get the newer upgraded frame until MY 2014.
Each year added little nice "things". Like the 2016 got front park sense sensors and ability to move camera's between displays etc. 15's have things that the 13 and 14 do not.
SNOKING
Your old 6.0 doesn't compare to a newer 6.7 Ram (Its not a Dodge anymore, FYI).
The Cummins is a proven engine that doesn't have the issues that the 6.0's had. The 2015 or 2016 Ram will have a much more stout frame than the old Ford had. The newer Ram will have better power, better exhaust braking and better fuel economy than the old 6.0 had.
Now, comparing a 2015/16 Ram to a 2017 or newer Ford is a different argument. The Ford 6.7 appears to be a great engine, especially by the 2017 model year. I am still leery about the Bosch fuel pump that Ford uses... it has been problematic in the past. Ford finally redesigned their frames for 2017, making it much stronger and giving them greater payload and GVWR. I think you still have to remove the cab if you need to work on the engine... a HUGE turnoff for me. That is a substantial repair cost before they even get to touching the engine.
The Ram is usually cheaper than Ford as well, so that is a huge plus for the Ram. At the end of the day, buy the truck that YOU like, not the truck that any of us like. I absolutely love my Cummins and highly recommend it. My cousin has a 2012 F250 and loves his truck and highly recommends it too. I don't think you can really go wrong with ANY of the HD/SuperDuty trucks that are available right now. They will all be substantial upgrades over your 2005.
Maintenance on the newer Rams is pretty straightforward. 2 fuel filters with a 15K mile change frequency. You can get them for about $100 or less on the internet. They are pretty easy to change yourself. One is under the bed, the other is in the engine compartment. Oil filter is a pain in the neck to get too, but the truck is rated for 15K/6 month OCI's. That is pretty much your standard maintenance on the Ram.
The Cummins is a proven engine that doesn't have the issues that the 6.0's had. The 2015 or 2016 Ram will have a much more stout frame than the old Ford had. The newer Ram will have better power, better exhaust braking and better fuel economy than the old 6.0 had.
Now, comparing a 2015/16 Ram to a 2017 or newer Ford is a different argument. The Ford 6.7 appears to be a great engine, especially by the 2017 model year. I am still leery about the Bosch fuel pump that Ford uses... it has been problematic in the past. Ford finally redesigned their frames for 2017, making it much stronger and giving them greater payload and GVWR. I think you still have to remove the cab if you need to work on the engine... a HUGE turnoff for me. That is a substantial repair cost before they even get to touching the engine.
The Ram is usually cheaper than Ford as well, so that is a huge plus for the Ram. At the end of the day, buy the truck that YOU like, not the truck that any of us like. I absolutely love my Cummins and highly recommend it. My cousin has a 2012 F250 and loves his truck and highly recommends it too. I don't think you can really go wrong with ANY of the HD/SuperDuty trucks that are available right now. They will all be substantial upgrades over your 2005.
Maintenance on the newer Rams is pretty straightforward. 2 fuel filters with a 15K mile change frequency. You can get them for about $100 or less on the internet. They are pretty easy to change yourself. One is under the bed, the other is in the engine compartment. Oil filter is a pain in the neck to get too, but the truck is rated for 15K/6 month OCI's. That is pretty much your standard maintenance on the Ram.
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What sets the Cummins apart from the ford diesel is the design of the engine for that model year. The Cummins is a simply 6 cylinder inline truck engine that has been fitted into the Ram trucks. This has been used in many medium duty trucks, motor homes and even Ford offered them in the F650 and up models for a awhile. This engine builds the torque low in the power band and maintains the torque all of the way thru the power band. There are many other design features that I can go into but this has been done by the editors of TDR already, in their quarterly publication
The Powerstroke 6.7L engine is a new designed engine with many features that I would be concerned about such as where the Turbo is place down in the valley, where heat is retained and cannot be dissipated easily. The intake and exhaust ports are opposite of what has been the norm for engine design in the past. To name just a few items. I am not sure that a Ford 6.7L engine will get over 200K miles on the engine without major overhaul!
My background is that I am a retired engineer from a large manufacturing firm that designed heavy equipment, so I do know diesel engines.
Thank you all for the fantastic input. I def appreciate it. It sounds to me that the Cummins is certainly the way to go in the RAM (not a dodge anymore, that is weird to say btw). I have another question and it relates to tuners/programmers. Is there any reason why I would need to utilize one of these on the Cummins? This will be my daily driver and the one I will use when traveling the country with my baseball team so mileage is important. Is the factory set up good enough or is there something to make it run better and more efficient that I can do? It may not be a tuner/programmer so what are the things that folks do to get the most out of the Cummins?
Clean Fuel, Clean Lube oil and Read the TDR. There are many of us that have run our Cummins engines well over the 500,000 mile mark. The newer trucks (2013 on) have had some growing pains with the after treatment but it seems that FCA has got it right now. And the Best part is that their "FIXES" have been applied to the earlier trucks (13's and 14's). I like the Ford "truck" but you can't beat a Cummins engine. Geno's garage has by far the best prices for all your filter and maintenance needs. Oh one last thought if you are looking at a 13 or 14 make sure that all the recalls have been done. It'll save you greef up front.
I use a tuner but my truck is a 2008, 6.7L without DEF. Since the introduction of DEF on these trucks starting in 2013.5, I would not use any tuner/programmer. The High Output trucks with the AISIN transmission are producing way more HP/TQ in the stock configuration than the 6.7L introduced in 2007.5. The HO is producing 385HP@2800RPM and the TQ is 900lb-ft@1700RPM with the AISIN transmission (3500 model only in SRW/DRW configuration).
Here is a spec sheet of the 6.7L engine and the engine attributes per model year, this may or may not interest you! Hope this does?
http://www.cumminshub.com/67.html
GrantP
TDR MEMBER
I did some mild upgrades to my 97 to raise the power to almost what I have now in my bone stock 06. I thought I was going to add some sort of tune to the 06 when I bought it but it's been 5 years now and I still haven't done it. I've really enjoyed not keeping one eye on an EGT gauge and the other on the highway when towing or pulling a long hill. If you leave it stock you can't hurt it...and your transmission will thank you.
These are issues that have always turned me away from Ford. Their frames weren't fully boxed until the recent 2017 model, unlike the GM and Ram offerings. Their engines used to require, and still do from what I understand, that the whole body be lifted off the chassis for certain types of service and maintenance. And while the 6.7 Powerstroke seems to be a giant step forward from Ford's earlier engines (6.0 and 6.4), Ford's engines just don't have the same reputation for reliability as Cummins IMO. Maybe the new 6.7 Powerstroke will change that perception. Don't know. I do know that in the past, Ford has really dropped the ball with some of their engine designs and it's hard for me to view them the same as Cummins because of that.
The 6.7L Cummins, by comparison, is a relatively simple design that has been refined and evolved over the years. Cummins, and Ram, have so much experience with this configuration of diesel engine that most of the kinks and bugs have been resolved (excluding the emissions issues, which are a potential problem for any modern diesel). And by many accounts, the inline 6 configuration seems to perform better when towing compared to the diesel v8's.
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