Newby Question: Fuel Filtration

[RUSSELL5000]

I have been reading some threads on here regarding fuel filtration and am somewhat confused.

I queried out the literature from FleetGuard (Cummins) on the nano-net fuel filter. The literature I read says that inside the case is really two filters nested together – the fuel first flows through a filter as fine as 5 microns and then through a filter as fine as 3 microns.

From reading here, it appears that the injectors in the 6.7 HPCR are easily impaired by fuel that is not clean enough. The discussion regarding injectors in the “Perfect Collection” leads me to believe that the FleetGuard nano-net fuel filter is just what is needed for long injector life.

My truck is a 2012; I note that, beginning with the 2013 model year, there is now an additional fuel filter. So, now I think my 2012 with the single nano-net fuel filter is not adequate. My reasoning is that is the 2012 configuration was good then Ram would not have added a second filter.

Even if I conclude I need to improve the filtration, I am confused regarding what to do about it. Can I simply add an additional filter so that I have a configuration like the 2013 and subsequent model years? Or do I need an aftermarket lift pump and filter combination?

I am also confused by the economics. The engine warranty is 5 years/100,000 miles. For me that means five years – I am averaging 10,000 miles per year. Does it make any economic sense for me to enhance the fuel system. That is, suppose my current configuration leads to injector failure at 150,000 miles. That is still 13 years from now for me, and I’ll probably replace the truck by then.

So, still pretty much a newby and still scratching my head.

How do you view it?

Thanks!!

 

[Jim W]

Russell,
I would leave the truck alone as far as filtration for the fuel system and change as required per the Ram owner’s manual. You are not going to be able to add another filter and expect better results than what you are all ready getting from the original filters on the truck. The filtration level of the secondary filter will be equal to or higher rating than the 5/3 Nanonet filter on the truck. So if you install a filter up stream of the engine filter than this will be filtering down to say 5 micron absolute and you would not need the engine filter at all. If installed after the engine mounted filter the 5 micron absolute filter would stay on for almost 100,000 miles the only way you could tell when to change would be a drop off in fuel pressure. Are you using a fuel pressure gage?

The older trucks did require the secondary fuel filter because the engine primary fuel filter was only filtering between 10 and 7 microns level depending on year. So an absolute filter of 5 micron would be a benefit if install between the engines mounted fuel filter and the CP3 pump.

The warranty is only good for 5 years or 100,000 miles which every comes first, not 100,000 miles if you pass the 5 year mark.

Just my $0.02

Jim W.

 

[Kirwin]

You can add the extra filter. Its part of the severe duty filtration kit from Ram. It is available in kit form from your dealer. When you look up the extra chassis mounted filter it displays as part of the severe duty filter kit in the 2013 parts book. Ken Irwin

 

[Bob V]

The problem there is no standard for filter ratings. An example is a 5 micron rated filter, Brand A might filter out 75% of the 5 micron and larger particles. Another manufacturer might filter out 90%. The only real rating is the BETA rating. some reading http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency http://www.lenntech.com/library/fine/beta/beta-ratio.htm
Unless it has a BETA rating it really doesn't mean anything

 

[DonFitzwater]

Lets ask this question...........Do you think that Ram is adding the second filter back at the tank because they want us to have better filtration.......potentially reducing fuel system component failure caused by particulate or water ingestion??? Or because of something else? Company's don't spend money on stuff like this just for the heck of it. I think this is a cost saving measure for Ram as it may keep warranty costs down.......

 

[Jim W]

The problem there is no standard for filter ratings. An example is a 5 micron rated filter, Brand A might filter out 75% of the 5 micron and larger particles. Another manufacturer might filter out 90%. The only real rating is the BETA rating. some reading http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency http://www.lenntech.com/library/fine/beta/beta-ratio.htm
Unless it has a BETA rating it really doesn't mean anything

I am sorry but there is a standard for filter rating and it is ISO 168889 now. Also I did not state a 5 micron filter; I stated 5 Micron absolute filter which could filter to 2um.

I do agree that the Beta ratting is important also but at the same time you need to review the entire picture on the filtration process. If you are going to throw in the Beta requirements into this discussion. Is it a single pass test or a multiply pass test and what is the standard on the media that is being used for the test; IE dirt.

I was trying to keep the discussion simple not everyone understands Beta ratio and the micron ratings along with ISO requirements for filters.

The gentleman was asking if he needed extra filtration for his 2012 truck and in my opinion no; it is not needed if he is going to retain the stock configuration of the engine. He should be fine for the life of the fuel system if he maintains per Chrysler recommendations.

Jim W.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks, guys.

Bob V, thanks for the input but I do have to admit that, as a newby, you lost me. I do like learning, and so I'll be looking into your link. It may be overly simplistic, but I have made the assumption that if FleetGuard is providing the filter then it is just right for a Cummins.

DFitzwater, you have expressed my thinking on the subject. I figured Ram did not add the additional filter out of the goodness of their hearts, and so it must have been put there to reduce problems.

Jim W., I use the FleetGuard nano-net filter and I have been obsessive about changing - manual calls for 15,000 miles and I have changed at about half of that. I have an Edge CTS - I will have to look and see if fuel pressure is monitored. If not, then no, I do not have a fuel pressure gauge. I note in your response that I cannot expect any better filtration by adding a second filter because two filters won't get anything any cleaner than one filter if the filters are the same.

Guys, maybe I am just think in the head, but I still don't get it. If a second filter does not result in better filtration then why did Ram add a second filter for 2013 and subsequent? I assumed it was added to correct a shortcoming.

 

[Kirwin]

Its my understanding the the chassis mounted filter is a 7 micron filter and the engine mounted filter is 3 micron. RUSELL5000, Ram didn't add this filter for us. I believe the engine needs it or they wouldn't have added it. Better filtration is a good thing for diesel fuel. We can't control the source and we can't add a filter inline between the pump and our tank. We can only control the filters that we use and buy our fuel from a reputable dealer. You can add the severe duty filter upgrade to your 2012 Ram and you will have the same filtration as the 2013 and later Rams. Racor and Fleetguard make quality products. Everything else must be evaluated by you and you must determine if it meets your requirements along with who ever made it's ideas on how it mounts and how to service it. Ram has already done this for you on the severe duty filtration kit. My $0.02. Ken Irwin

 

[Jim W]

Its my understanding the the chassis mounted filter is a 7 micron filter and the engine mounted filter is 3 micron. RUSELL5000, Ram didn't add this filter for us. I believe the engine needs it or they wouldn't have added it. Better filtration is a good thing for diesel fuel. We can't control the source and we can't add a filter inline between the pump and our tank. We can only control the filters that we use and buy our fuel from a reputable dealer. You can add the severe duty filter upgrade to your 2012 Ram and you will have the same filtration as the 2013 and later Rams. Racor and Fleetguard make quality products. Everything else must be evaluated by you and you must determine if it meets your requirements along with who ever made it's ideas on how it mounts and how to service it. Ram has already done this for you on the severe duty filtration kit. My $0.02. Ken Irwin

Ken;
What are you saying that Ram seems to think that the engine filtration package is inadequate that is being provided by Cummins?

When I was at the CMEP rally last year; I asked why was this additional filter is required now on the newer trucks. The Cummins representative could not say why Ram decided on adding this filter to the fuel system and why Ram choose the filtration ability of this filter. At the time Ram was stating that the filter was rated at 4 microns (could have change since the roll out) and the engine had a 5 micron filter installed. This did not make sense to me since the upstream filter had finer filtration than the engine filter so the engine filter was useless. The Nanonett filter was not offered at the time so the original filter on the engine was only 5 um for the 2013.5 trucks.

Speculation was that Ram was being sensitive to the water issue that can occur in Bio-fuel since the engine is now rated for B20 fuel. They picked this water separator/fuel filter package to insure that water would not destroy the CP3 and injectors downstream. No one knows for sure why Ram added this but it is there now so those that have the filter that is one more service part. Do the older trucks (2010-2012) need this additional filter I would say no the Nanonet filter is more than adequate for them.

Jim W.

 

[Kirwin]

Jim, that is what I think. Ram does not add parts to the truck for the heck of it. Now maybe they didn't know that Fleetguard was releasing a better filter that would be installed on the 2013 Rams? I don't know. It just doesn't seem to me that Ram would install it unless THEY thought it was necessary. We all have opinions, myself included. I was trying to explain to RUSSELL5000 about the filters on our 2013 and later trucks could be easily installed on his 2012. I wasn't trying to be difficult. I just want to have the best filtration I can have, but I don't want to make the fuel system any more complicated than absolutely necessary. More parts means more things that could go wrong/leak/fail/leave me stranded. If you want to add the filter that Ram installed on the 2013 and later Rams, its easy to do with the kit Ram offers for the older trucks. That is what I was trying to say. Only he can decide if he "needs" the better filtration. My $0.02. Ken Irwin

 

[cerberusiam]

What are you saying that Ram seems to think that the engine filtration package is inadequate that is being provided by Cummins?

Cummins does not recommend filtration requirements, never have. The engines are delivered by Cummins with the customer selected options for filtration. The engine can be delivered with any filtration attached, in that case the all the filtration is the customers repsonsibility and is on the chassis.

Ram added the extra filter because it is needed due to the problems with ULSD and bio with retaining water. The positives of multi-pass filtration are well know and Ram has finally implemented what other diesel segements have done for years.

Regardless of how many filters, factory installed or not, if the owner puts bad fuel in the truck the warranty is voided. Do not rely on factory filtration being adequate and warranty being intact. Add the extra filter as the extra water filtration is a huge plus.

 

[mwilson]

Cummins does not recommend filtration requirements, never have. The engines are delivered by Cummins with the customer selected options for filtration. The engine can be delivered with any filtration attached, in that case the all the filtration is the customers repsonsibility and is on the chassis.

There it is. Cold, naked truth.

Cummins sells these engines to RAM without ANY warranty. The filtration is all on RAM.

Mike.

 

[Jim W]

Cummins does not recommend filtration requirements, never have. The engines are delivered by Cummins with the customer selected options for filtration. The engine can be delivered with any filtration attached, in that case the all the filtration is the customers repsonsibility and is on the chassis.

Ram added the extra filter because it is needed due to the problems with ULSD and bio with retaining water. The positives of multi-pass filtration are well know and Ram has finally implemented what other diesel segements have done for years.

Regardless of how many filters, factory installed or not, if the owner puts bad fuel in the truck the warranty is voided. Do not rely on factory filtration being adequate and warranty being intact. Add the extra filter as the extra water filtration is a huge plus.

I disagree with your statement and I am basing this on my experience working for a very large earthmoving company. The corporation always specified to the end user of the companies engines that were sold as auxiliary equipment and or as in vehicle chassis engines; the fuel filtration requirement for the fuel system. The engines were even shipped with the corporation fuel, oil and air filters installed on them just like the Cummins engines are shipped with the oil and fuel filters on them. Even though they are package as MOPAR filters which are rebadged Fleetguard filters on the engines that are shipped to RAM.

When we received hydraulic components from say Vickers, Rexroth and Parker to name just a few they always specified filtration requirements for these components when used by OEM manufactures.

I do know that BOSCH will specify filtration requirements for the fuel system and their pumps which the OEM may or may not abide by. Also Chrysler has the final say since Chrysler is the warrantor of the Cummins engine and the Bosch fuel system on the trucks. Although the warranty dollars will end up in the lap of Cummins/Bosch when the yearly price negotiations take place for their components.

Jim W.

 

[cerberusiam]

The corporation always specified to the end user of the companies engines that were sold as auxiliary equipment and or as in vehicle chassis engines; the fuel filtration requirement for the fuel system.

Your mixing recommendations with specifications then throwing a 3rd party in the mix. A 3rd party corp may very well specify what they want for additional systems and Cummins adds it, but, that does not in any way mean Cummins recommends it.

Cummins has never had a fuel filtration recopmmendation because they don't build the fuel systems, Bosch does. Bosch has a recommended fuel quality specification, has for years, but that has not ever been passed to the consumer becasue they are just a supplier and the purchaser can do what they want regardless of recommendations.

Even Bosch's fuel quality recommendations are vague enough that it is a grey area. Bosch sells the components to Cummins as componeent parts with no inherent warranty beyond QC. Cummins sells the engine to Dodge as Dodge has requested it be configured with no warranty beyond QC.

There is NO filtration requirement from Cummins or Bosch. What is seen is the 3rd party vendor specifications for for filtration, not recommendations. Adoption of a specification does not constitute a recommendation. The fuel quality responsibility is pushed to the consumer.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Guys,

There is a lot of discussion and I always learn something here on the forum. On the other hand, I must say a lot of it is far out of my understanding. So, if you will bear with me for a minute, let's leave the rating of fuel filters and manufacturer specifications/recommendations for a minute.

What I am thinking is this:

First, replacing injectors is a heap big pile o' money (at least, a heap big pile to me). I think we would all agree on that one.

Second, I think I have gathered from this forum that a significant source of injector failure is fuel that is not clean enough. Again, I think from what I have read we would all agree on that one.

Third, I'd like to do a cost/benefit analysis and you guys let me know if I am figuring it right. It looks to me like I can get a MOPAR OEM 6.7L Diesel Severe Duty Fuel Filter Kit for my 2012 for about $300. If I understand the discussion above correctly, I can install this kit by itself and not have to concern myself with the lift pump. Again, if I understand it correctly, installation of this kit will result in filtration that is equivalent to what is on the 2013 and subsequent model years. That seems to be the cost side of the equation. My thinking is that a benefit side of the equation exists because the additional filtration was added on the 2013 and subsequent model years; Chrysler would not have done that otherwise. Another way to say this: it seems to me that I am looking at $300 in initial cost and additional filter cost at replacement to have fuel as clean as the 2013 and subsequent model years flowing into the injectors.

Do I have the cost side of the equation down correctly?

It seems to me we have some disagreement on the benefit side of the equation. I am thinking that addition of the MOPAR severe duty filtration kit will yield a benefit of better working injectors and longer injector life.

Because the cost side of the equation is relatively low, I think this may be worthwhile doing. Installation of the MOPAR severe duty filtration kit cannot hurt anything, can it?


Thanks!!

 

[cerberusiam]

Installation of the MOPAR severe duty filtration kit cannot hurt anything, can it?

Bottom line, installation of ANY additional filtration cannot hurt.

 

[bigceltic]

Bottom line, installation of ANY additional filtration cannot hurt.

And the MOPAR SDFK was released as part of a TSB. I had mine installed by the Dealer.

https://www.genosgarage.com/GenosGarageTechArticles/TDR77_03+FuelFilters.pdf

 

[RUSSELL5000]

BIGCELTIC - thanks for link - I did not find.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

An update - my silly TPMS sent a chime and an error message to the EVIC this weekend - appears passenger side rear tire sensor quit working. Vehicles need to have an annual state inspection in Pennsylvania, and it is due, so I called the dealer to set a time and have them fix the silly TPMS. I asked about the Mopar severe duty filtration kit and was told that it has been a popular add-on, and was quoted installed at $250.

I'll post on how it works out.

 

[bigceltic]

An update - my silly TPMS sent a chime and an error message to the EVIC this weekend - appears passenger side rear tire sensor quit working. Vehicles need to have an annual state inspection in Pennsylvania, and it is due, so I called the dealer to set a time and have them fix the silly TPMS. I asked about the Mopar severe duty filtration kit and was told that it has been a popular add-on, and was quoted installed at $250.

I'll post on how it works out.

One note. I don't see a Smarty listed in your SIG, but on my '06, they changed the WIF Sensor on the main fuel filter to a different one when they installed the SDFK- so you end up with 2 WIF sensors. It was fine until I bought a Smarty Jr and it caused the WIF light to go on - something about the Smarty Jr "stock" program not recognizing the new WIF sensors. To cure it I had to disconnect the new WIF sensor wiring, reinstall the orig WIF sensor (had to buy a new one) and reconnect the orig wiring. Just an FYI. If you have a Smarty, you will want to keep the orig sensor. If and when MADS comes out with an update for the SDFK WIF sensors, I can reinstall the SDFK sensor in the main filter and reconnect the wiring.

Update: here is the thread https://www.turbodieselregister.com...006-5-9L-WIF-light-on-after-Smarty-Jr-Install

George