Newer generation 4BT?

[Gordon Maney]

When the 6-cylinder was improved and became more quiet, was there a corresponding version of the 4-cylinder produced at the same time? If so, that would seem to be a great candidate for conversions.

 

[Will24]

They do make a common rail ISB4, (I believe it an ISBe with rear gear train)





-Will

 

[DKarvwnaris]

They do make a common rail ISB4, (I believe it an ISBe with rear gear train)





-Will

I have seen the newer version 4bt in indusstrial equipment, mostly generation and pump systems. I don't know about automotive yet?... .

A quick call to your local cummins dealer shop should turn up specific models for automotive use.

I really think the 4bt is being ignored by many people and is not getting a fair chance to be utilized as it deserves. These engines are every bit as reliable as the 5. 9's. They are leaps and bounds ahead of any v-8 gas engines with similar dimensional needs and not too much heavier.

 

[NWhitney]

Rear Gear Train

The only problem with the newer 4bta's is they are all Rear gear train, AKA pump and the like are in the back next to the firewall. They are great on industrial and gen sets but the extra bit would make them hard for conversions. *all information here is from the Cummins Tech I talked to at a farm show in Sep. *

 

[CKnoop]

I work on Bread and cake trucks we have a 2004 Cake truck with the ISB engine it is a lot quieter seems to run better has Alison auto its all computorized havent had any problems with it yet

 

[Morse]

I just bought a new Cummins B3. 3 crate motor. I dont know much about it yet. . I'll post pics and share info when the project is running. . My friends have jeeps and samurais. . I figured I'd take a samurai, big axles, GM auto, lots of lift, and a Cummins and it would be original. We'll see. .

 

[Gordon Maney]

I just bought a new Cummins B3. 3 crate motor. I dont know much about it yet. . I'll post pics and share info when the project is running. . My friends have jeeps and samurais. . I figured I'd take a samurai, big axles, GM auto, lots of lift, and a Cummins and it would be original. We'll see. .

When you buy an engine like that, what comes with it? Does it include the electronics to make it run? Does it include any external accessories, such as alternator?

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I work on Bread and cake trucks we have a 2004 Cake truck with the ISB engine it is a lot quieter seems to run better has Alison auto its all computorized havent had any problems with it yet

What models are your vans? Grumman? Freightliner? I am curious mainly so I can use the the model and make to order parts for the 4bt's accessories. Most parts shops are completely useless without a vehicle model at the least. A few even require the last 6 of the VIN to even tell you if they can look up an oil filter nowadays. So much for the ASE certified parts guys being more capable than the parts computer they are leashed to.

 

[Morse]

I've finally got some pics of the new motor, though I can't seem to post them. . The new motor came with the alternator mounted with a belt already on the motor. . Starter was also included. As they said, hook a battery up, and hook up the fuel line and it's ready to go. . This motor is all mechanical. No electronics. .

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I've finally got some pics of the new motor, though I can't seem to post them. . The new motor came with the alternator mounted with a belt already on the motor. . Starter was also included. As they said, hook a battery up, and hook up the fuel line and it's ready to go. . This motor is all mechanical. No electronics. .

If you get a chance to photograph the Rear of the engine, please do. I'm interested to see how different the block's mount holes are from the 3. 9 and whether the 4bt/6bt bellhousing adapter will actually work with the smaller engine?..... This sounds like an interesting option for the future for offroad toys. I highly doubt it will be emmisions compliant with no electronics for highway use though, an area of increasing concern as the EPA further tightens its noose on "homebrew" vehicles.

 

[Dieselnut59]

The 3. 3L Cummins is a Japanese built engine. Seems to be a great engine. We sell forklifts and I recently sold a new Daewoo 6000 lb capacity lift with the 3. 3L cummins. it is a sweet running engine. Meets "Tier II" emissions without any electronic controls. Smokes a little at start up and would be easy to bomb. The one in this lift is rated at 58 horsepower and is naturally aspirated. They offer a turbocharged version for other applications. The new B series is 4. 5L and is a 4 cylinder version of the bigger B-series 6. 8L I believe. Both of the ones I saw at the Cummins South display at the Agricultural Exposition were mechanically injected. The 4. 5L was rear gear driven.

 

[Morse]

Yeah, I saw where the 3. 3 is a joint venture with I believe it was Komatsu. I've got the turbocharged 85 hp 215 tq version. I've got a HY35 turbo for it, and will continue mods when it's all together in the vehicle. The rear of the engine is not the same as the 3. 9. I bought an adaptor and flexplate to bolt a 3. 9 to a GM automatic in hopes it would fit. Well, it didn't. I'm having a new adaptor custom made. I'm actually haveing an extra made for a spare or to clone if needed. It's gonna take a while, but it should be unique for a while. .

 

[Dieselnut59]

By the way, the 4. 5L is just the 4-cylinder version of the 6. 8(?)L, just like the 3. 9 is to our beloved 5. 9. It is another whole line of engines, used for commercial/industrial (off road only, I believe) use.

I believe you are right about the 3. 3 being a joint venture of Cummins/Komatsu. Cummins also has an engine that is a 2. 4 or 2. 5 liter that is a joint venture between Daewoo and Cummins. Daewoo uses it in their 3000# capacity lifts.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The geartrain on the 3. 3L in this picture is on the front...



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Did anyone find out if the 3. 3L has the same bellhousing bolt-pattern as a 3. 9L 4BT?



Matt

 

[DKarvwnaris]

The geartrain on the 3. 3L in this picture is on the front...



#ad




Did anyone find out if the 3. 3L has the same bellhousing bolt-pattern as a 3. 9L 4BT?



Matt

The blocks rear mounting holes are different between 3. 3 and the 3. 9 . This was addressed on here before somewhere. Someone has the 3. 3 already and has seen the parts are incompatible. I checked with a Cummins dealer a few weeks ago and the parts diagrams for these engines is different on the backs enough that you can even see it in the blow up diagrams on their parts systems.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Someone has the 3. 3 already and has seen the parts are incompatible.

That figures... oh well - the search continues.

I work on Bread and cake trucks we have a 2004 Cake truck with the ISB engine it is a lot quieter seems to run better has Alison auto its all computorized havent had any problems with it yet

Take a look at the attached picture - this is a 2004 3. 9L ISBe/Allison from a bread truck... just like the one you're familiar with. What in the heck is the pump above the CP3 high pressure fuel pump? Is that some sort of gear-driven fuel pump? It sure as heck doesn't look like a power steering pump... Whatever it is - it leaked all over the place. (almost looks like diesel fuel that got everywhere... ?)



I'm not used to seeing these things with rear-mounted gearcases. It almost looks goofy and like it might be hard to install/maintain in a vehicle that doesn't have a doghouse like a bread van.



Would you buy it for a conversion project? I'm undecided.



Matt

 

[DKarvwnaris]

That figures... oh well - the search continues.







Would you buy it for a conversion project? I'm undecided.



Matt

If I planned to use the category 2 bellhousing, sure. If I needed to change to the Dodge style light duty truck bellhousing, it would be hard to say yes or no without knowing how the accessories were mounted up. Most of the time, you can hook things up with little problems on these and since it was a production produced unit, you can always refer back to its original intended platform for parts.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Well - they want $5500 for the supposedly 6k mile pair (+ shipping = ouch!)...



I'd definitely use the 1000-series Allison if I were buying them... in fact, that is one of the biggest selling points, IMHO. All of the wiring and ECM/TCM stuff is also included. It is an awful lot of money, though...



Here are some more pics - that'll show you how the accessories are mounted up...



Matt



On edit: What in the heck is that pump above the CP3 high pressure fuel pump? A free case of beer to the person who correctly identifies it!!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I emailed the seller of the ISBe I have pictured above - he just emailed me back said that the pump is in fact the power steering pump.



Also - according to a quick freight quote the seller provided, shipping that engine/transmission combo 1500+ miles won't be as bad as I thought. Does $325 seem appropriate for dock-to-dock (seems cheap... )? I've never shipped anything that heavy before.



Matt

 

[Matt S]

Does the Allison have a Park?