Newer generation 4BT?

[DKarvwnaris]

Does the Allison have a Park?

Doubtful, most of the allison's in this application are setup with a driveshaft mounted parking brake. One of the reasons the Allison's aren't real popular with me.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

"Park"

I just emailed a renowned Allison expert (and TDR member) to see if adding a park prawl to an Allison 1000-series transmission is a big deal. Since these come in GM 3/4 and 1-ton trucks with park prawls... I don't think it will be a big deal, but it might require a teardown of the transmission to add parts. No biggie.



Matt

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Update: Adding a park prawl to a 1000-Series Allison is no biggie...



I just called Cummins and found out that the oil pan on that ISBe (170hp, 3. 9L) can be flipped end-for-end for front or rear sump (SWEET! ).



Here are some part numbers I managed to get...

Cummins part # (as of 2/8/06):

4897997 OEM oil pan

4896964 oil pickup tube for REAR sump

4898301 oil pickup tube gasket

4897887 oil pan gasket



Matt

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Update: Adding a park prawl to a 1000-Series Allison is no biggie...



I just called Cummins and found out that the oil pan on that ISBe (170hp, 3. 9L) can be flipped end-for-end for front or rear sump (SWEET! ).



Matt

Now comes the question as to which do you want to make first contact with if you hit a piece of debris, a front axle/ 2wd crossmember or a oil pan turned to be sumped from the front side of the engine?

My big Volvo has a front side sump on the oil pan, it is a real bad design in my opinion. (it's also a synthetic oil pan which is even worse, detroit series 60 engine).

I'd rather modify the frame or put a lift on the project vehicle than turn the oil pan around for axle clearance etc. If you can fit a big block, you can usually get the 4bt to shoehorn in without too many mods.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I think you misunderstood my reasoning for calling Cummins to see if I can get a rear sump pan.



This engine has a front sump pan now... leaving it like that, the sump would interfere with the axle... so I need to swap it around to the back - just like the Dodge/Cummins. The little Dana in the project vehicle will take all the abuse before something hits the pan's sump - just like it does on our beloved 250's / 2500's / 3500's.



Matt

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I think you misunderstood my reasoning for calling Cummins to see if I can get a rear sump pan.



This engine has a front sump pan now... leaving it like that, the sump would interfere with the axle... so I need to swap it around to the back - just like the Dodge/Cummins. The little Dana in the project vehicle will take all the abuse before something hits the pan's sump - just like it does on our beloved 250's / 2500's / 3500's.



Matt

Sorry, my mistake, the 4bt's I have bought so far have all been rear sump setups. (mostly p-30 chassis setups) I've only seen the front sump's in ag equipment and generator setups. Good info for a mid engine rock buggy with a front mounted sump setup

 

[HoleshotHolset]

OK - now we're both on the same page.



The one I'm looking at came out of an '04 FedEx truck... so it has a rear mounted gearcase and a front sump. (Goofy!) I was happy to know that all I have to do is flip the pan around and get a longer oil pump pickup tube/strainer... I'm hoping that the rear mounted gearcase (pics above... ) doesn't adversely affect installing the engine in a vehicle with a traditional firewall... To me, it looks like the gearcase and its accessories (PS pump, CP3 injection pump) do not stick out any further than the bellhousing adapter...



Matt

 

[CFAR]

HH,



This going in the Beetle? :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[DKarvwnaris]

HH,



This going in the Beetle? :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

Just for the sake for giving a few hippies and environmentalists a heart attack, I would love to see a vintage VW aircooled bug with a 4bt installed into it. Repaint it with wilted flowers and stenciling that reads something to the effect of smog bug across its rear deck lid.

Imagine the hot rod circuit you could tease with a tubbed out and bombed love bug. Maybe a nice pink Manx body with a mid engine setup.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

No - I think my old Beetle would crack in half if I put an 800# engine in it... nevermind a 300#+ transmission. :-laf



That's not to say that I won't get involved with a high-HP TDI in the future. It is highly probable that I will have another TDI someday.



Matt

 

[therabbittree]

do it! do it! do it! use your tax refund buy the cummins now ! do i! doit !doit... ... ! ha then maybe i might sell the passat too. . fun fun . . your rig would be bad ***. . did i tell you that freind of mine that is a little funny who bought a school bus. . well he told me he bought another one, but this one is a isb cummins with a allison . . im not sure of the trans spec but the price is VERY VERY good if he really bought it i will buy it from him cheap. . i'll call ya and tell you about it. .

later deo. .

oh and buy the cummins

 

[HoleshotHolset]

That's it - Deo has spoken. I'm going to call the guy today and get the lowdown.



Most ISB/Allison combos I've seen that come out of school buses run AT545's... no overdrive. D'oh!



On edit: Here's a thread I started over on the 3rd Gen side of things... it has some groovy info for those that are interested.



Matt

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I pulled the trigger...

I placed an order and wired the money for the aforementioned ISBe/Allison combo. Oo.



Matt

 

[CFAR]

What are you going to put it in?



I have an M37 I want to convert, the only problem is 4bt or 6bt?



6bt would require a 3/4 ton frame, 4bt I could get away with a 1/2 ton.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The ISBe/Allison combo is going to be installed into a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (4x4). I bought the vehicle very cheap and am not afraid to take a torch and a sledge to it to make things fit.



Will it be perfect? Nope.

Is the OEM unibody chassis strong enough? We'll find out.

Will the OEM differentials and driveshafts last? We'll find out.

Will it be cool? Heck yeah.

Will it get 25+ mpg? You bet.

Will it be a comfy daily driver? Oh yeah.



I'm not the first to do this - check out this link. I've emailed the guy that did it and he absolutely loves the end results...



Cheers,



Matt

 

[benhall]

My dad is interested in diesels, but doesn't want or need a heavy Dodge. Do any of you think this would work with a 1500 that has the NV3500 5 speed?



Ben

 

[DKarvwnaris]

My dad is interested in diesels, but doesn't want or need a heavy Dodge. Do any of you think this would work with a 1500 that has the NV3500 5 speed?



Ben

Yes it would work with a 1500 series Chevy, I would upgrade the transmission to the nv-4500 though. Then you can use all dodge clutch parts. The 4bt still has a huge amount of torque, I'd rather have the transmission and clutch be rated for the 6bt than a GM gasser v-6 or v-8. Lots of people have put the 4bt into the 1/2 ton chassis's with no problems. Very little is different from the 2500 series and 1500 series, mainly just slightly larger front wheel hub bearing assemblies.

 

[benhall]

Thanks for the info, but I screwed up. I forgot to put Dodge in front of the 1500.



Ben

 

[CFAR]

The knuckles on the 1500's are a lot smaller that the ones on the 25/3500's.



Not a problem unless you plan on doing some hard off roading. I bought a rolled 1500, the front axle was bent and the top knuckle was bent up. Trying to find a non bent axle in a junk yard was not easy.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

I'd just find a 25000 series Ram with a blown 6bt and put the 4bt in its place. You'll be way ahead with this, it will drop into place with nothing but exhaust work, a few wires, and longer radiator hoses/fan shroud.

There is not that much difference in th1 1500 to 2500 series Rams to make a 1/2 ton more appealing weight wise, the engine is going to get you the fuel mileage, not the chassis. They have nearly identical stance. Change the emblems on the cab if you want a 1/2 ton