Competition Nhra Super Stock Class For Diesel

[COMP461]

it seems like Andy understands this is not a class bonsi runs , but also about hitting the tree and dialing on the number to win a race

 

[COMP461]

This class will be above minimum with driver at the end of the run.

Any light duty automotive diesel engine originally installed in a one ton truck and down is acceptable any internal modification is allowed.



TURBOCHARGER One ,Single turbocharger allowed variable turbos permitted

twin turbo chargers allowed with a 500 lbs weight addition .

One Intercoolers allowed , air to water intercoolers allowed . water injection allowed with air to air intercooler only. Example air to water intercooler or water injection , but not both. Water injection or air to water intercooler is only allowed on single turbo



TRANSMISSION any OEM allowed Tran brake allowed .



Exhaust must be pointed up and back , so as to not obscure the lights or other lane







SS/Diesel/A ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . 4500 lbs with single turbo

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... turbo inlet size 2. 50 or less



SS/Diesel/B... ... ... ... ... ... ..... 5500lbs with single turbo

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... …. . 6000lbs with twin turbos

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... turbo inlet size single2. 50 or less

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... turbo inlet size twin 3. 10 or less





After spending a many hours talking with almost everybody in the country, we have refined this class down even farther. The contributors of ideals reads like a who’s, who’s list of diesel guys. First Brian Block AKA KTACUMMINS or HILLJACK engineering,, Brian is a infinitely knowledgeable tech guy, not only in tractor pull and diesel drag racing but also a certified NHRA chassis tech . Next on my list is John Russin, BUDDHA POWER, John is IMO the leader in high end diesel valve train innovation’s, and cylinder head work.



Our conclusions are this We have put in maximum turbo sizes, this will include all but an extreme few, the reason is clear, the turbo’s make really big power, and big power is not conducive to real racing, we are trying to make a class that will be a tuners class, and not a test place as to which transmission or drive line part is going to fail next.



NHRA has given us more guidance, in that they want a truly completive SS racer, and not people interested in putting on a show. This class will be something for the diesel tuners to work their magic on, in heads, cams, injectors, and injector pumps. With the limited turbo this stuff will come in to play even more. We believe that if everybody is on the same page, and has to play by the same rules, it will be a place where the best guys will prevail. If this goes over I believe you will see the diesel industries flock to this to either build trucks or sponsor them. Rules lead to level playing field, leads to people feeling safe about spending money.

 

[TurboTweaker]

after a hrs. on the phone, i have come to the conclusion that we need to open this up just a little more for the everyday joe blow (or the average Fat Kid). A class for time between 11. 00-13. 50, and a weight of about 6500 min. I have no problem with the turbo size limit, i should have thought about that due to my tractor pulling backround . But this is what i think and I'm all for the NHRA diesel classes. But we need to open it up just a little bit more.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[Sled Puller]

After spending a many hours talking with almost everybody in the country, we have refined this class down even farther. The contributors of ideals reads like a who’s, who’s list of diesel guys. First Brian Block AKA KTACUMMINS or HILLJACK engineering,, Brian is a infinitely knowledgeable tech guy, not only in tractor pull and diesel drag racing



but also a certified NHRA chassis tech .

How about giving us a list of the who whos you talked to and when, so we know who to give credit for their ideals.



Oh, and KTA is as much of a certified NHRA chassis tech as I am.

 

[COMP461]

if your never going to ever drag race , why don't you just stay out of this , it doesn't concern you in any form or fashion, we all know you don't want this to happen, why , who cares , but you have done nothing but try and disrupt this process.



we have worked very hard to get this going , and some people have a vested intrest in making it fail. well , go and pull your sled some where besides a thread dedicated to drag racing.

 

[Cooker]

Did I miss where Sled Pluller said he was never ever going to drag race? Maybe he's building a second truck as we speak?

 

[Sled Puller]

Thanks Cooker, (sssshhh!)



And COMP, when you use my friends names, to further your goal, just try to make sure you are posting factual information.

 

[SpicyJam]

From what I have read about Sledpuller he ought to stay in what he loves to do, pull a sled, am I right?

As far as the NHRA goes I am for an event like this, it opens so many more avenues for our trucks. One thing I would like to ask Comp is, was the IHRA ever inquired?

As for rules go, we all have rules when it comes to motor sports. So whatever the rules were to become, that is what one will have to abide by, improve on that and this is where the technology soars.

I usually stay quiet about competiton, but there is a place for trucks at the track, as well as trucks pulling a weight sled, and etc... ... ... ... ..... I will agree, if you don't care for anothers passion then don't reply. Some of us on this site like to do different things with our trucks, and for that matter some of us like to just watch, but none of us should be discounting what another likes... ... ... ... ... ... . GET IT SLEDPULLER?

 

[Sled Puller]

I don't think you get it Spicy Jam, but thats understandable, after reading this many of Comps posts, I'm kind of fuzzy too!



As soon as COMP comes clean with his misinformation, I'll let it go.



But don't be surpised if the Cummins next to you in the staging lanes has Sled RACER on the tailgate!

 

[JoshPeters]

Here is the thing I have noticed. Your rules in the beginning said... . run faster than a 9. 99 and the entire class needs to have the extra safety equipment, chassis tag. . etc. The problem with that I see is this. One guy goes out and gets all that stuff. He qualifys for the run, runs a 9. 75. The rest of the class doesn't have all the extra stuff. He wins. No one else makes the cut. Or will you make a 9. 99 a break out time. Run faster and your done? You can't penalize everyone else for one guy running to fast. I think if you are going to make this class as it seems to be intended, you need to have safety. I'd say everyone needs to have that safety equipment.



*Note* I'm not a drag racer, just callin things like I see them. I don't know the cost involved or the weight/difficulty involved.



Josh

 

[SpicyJam]

lets not get confussed

 

[COMP461]

Here is the thing I have noticed. Your rules in the beginning said... . run faster than a 9. 99 and the entire class needs to have the extra safety equipment, chassis tag. . etc. The problem with that I see is this. One guy goes out and gets all that stuff. He qualifys for the run, runs a 9. 75. The rest of the class doesn't have all the extra stuff. He wins. No one else makes the cut. Or will you make a 9. 99 a break out time. Run faster and your done? You can't penalize everyone else for one guy running to fast. I think if you are going to make this class as it seems to be intended, you need to have safety. I'd say everyone needs to have that safety equipment.



*Note* I'm not a drag racer, just callin things like I see them. I don't know the cost involved or the weight/difficulty involved.



Josh

Josh, its not really as sudden as that , in 1999 I ran a D/Econo Dragster , a V6 Chevy , we all were running in the low 7. 60 and a few in the high 7. 50’s a guy caught a mineshaft condition air , and ran a 7. 48 . We were told that the next season we would have to have our chassis brought up to the next SFI spec. And our lic upgraded. I had to put one bar in my car, and a loop around my cage for helmet retention.

As soon as COMP comes clean with his misinformation, I'll let it go.



But don't be surprised if the Cummins next to you in the staging lanes has Sled RACER on the tailgate!

Would be great to see some one with a little knowledge, wanting to race, instead of causing waves, for the introduction of a legitimate SS class. Come on in the waters fine, and with your abilities you might like racing in front of a real crowd, say 100,000 people. The whole ideal is to make a class where its ability, tuning the engine combination is paramount to keeping drive line parts in place. And if everyone is limited by the same restrictions , then its brains , that will win.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

One Intercoolers allowed , air to water intercoolers allowed . water injection allowed with air to air intercooler only. Example air to water intercooler or water injection , but not both. Water injection or air to water intercooler is only allowed on single turbo

Is there any spec on the heat transfer fluid that racers are required to run in the air/water ICs? (NPG? EG? H20?)



Why is water injection prohibited on twin turbo vehicles AND anything running air/water ICs?



Is water/N2O/C02 allowed to be sprayed onto the ICs? (Most tracks frown upon spraying liquids onto ICs... for obvious reasons. )



What about ICs that use A/C system refrigerant?



Again - no flames intended... just looking to get folks thinking. Pardon my ignorance... have we discussed exotic/alternative fuels yet?



Matt

 

[JoshPeters]

Josh, its not really as sudden as that , in 1999 I ran a D/Econo Dragster , a V6 Chevy , we all were running in the low 7. 60 and a few in the high 7. 50’s a guy caught a mineshaft condition air , and ran a 7. 48 . We were told that the next season we would have to have our chassis brought up to the next SFI spec. And our lic upgraded. I had to put one bar in my car, and a loop around my cage for helmet retention.

.

The reason I say that is I don't think your current time will stand up long. A 9. 99. Maddog is running pretty dang close to that with his truck..... and that's got to be 3000lbs heavier. Drop that weight... . Your looking at probably closer to an 8.



So just to clarify... . This class will turn out to be kind of like NASCAR. The guy with the most $ and most R&D SHOULD (not always) win.



Josh

 

[Fletcher]

The reason I say that is I don't think your current time will stand up long. A 9. 99. Maddog is running pretty dang close to that with his truck..... and that's got to be 3000lbs heavier. Drop that weight... . Your looking at probably closer to an 8.



So just to clarify... . This class will turn out to be kind of like NASCAR. The guy with the most $ and most R&D SHOULD (not always) win.



Josh

MD's weight is 5890

 

[COMP461]

Maddogs weight is just a little under 6000 now, and sprays N2O, so I don’t see it running that under 9 at 4500. But we have just about decided to forget trying to keep it out of the 9’s. NHRA is still wanting a class where diesel motor sports are competitive, and not a one or two pass type of a deal.



In super stock you might have to run back to back passes during the final rounds of competition. The 4500 weight, with a single limited turbo is going to be a class where a guy can brew his own engine, and little changes will make a difference.



The inter cooler , water injection deal is something we have to work out , this is still a work in progress , nothing set in stone. There are Intercooler Company’s and water Injection Company’s that will be good candidates for contingency sponsorship, so we need to find a way to include them in. The spraying of any thing on radiators, or intercoolers is a definite no go in NHRA. We have farther analyzed the weight deal, and several people are of the opinion that we can get down below 4500. The reason for a weight reduction is a good argument, that it first can be done, second it makes it easer on parts, and faster.

 

[Idaho CTD]

Since it's late maybe someone can do the calc's for hp needed to push 4500 and 5000lbs to a 10. 0 but as I see it the turbo restrictions are going to be tough to reach those numbers. If it was me I'd raise atleast the single turbo inlet size. Without high boost the single guys will have to end up having to have compressor wheels made to give them the cfm numbers they need. Sure you can overfuel a charger and still make some power but it will also result in shelling chargers (without a wastegate) and LOTS of black smoke which I would bet the NHRA wont like. The bottom line is going to be smoke and soot on the track. Without laughing gas a single charger truck will have a hard time controlling that especially with a 2. 5" inducer turbo. That is essentially like trying to make say 700+hp from a B1 type charger (sure custom compressor wheels can help this but with most trucks probably going with a p7100 you can only imagine the smoke levels).



Personally I'd raise the inducer sizes to start and if things get carried away then lower them as needed. First you have to see if the power can be made and since you are leaving the times unlimited there shouldn't be a problem. The twin guys should have a much easier time keeping it clean.



FWIW I'd like to see this happen as well because it would bring a lot of innovation to the diesel industry.

 

[DavidTD]

4500 lbs will take about 750hp to run 135 mph. That should be enough MPH to run a low 10 or very high 9 if the truck can get off the line. A lot of power for a single turbo on diesel fuel without any other aids.

 

[Jetpilot]

4500 lbs. @ 10. 0 sec = 889 RWHP

5000 lbs. @ 10. 0 sec = 988 RWHP



These #'s are using a HP/ET calculator located here: http://www.prestage.com/community/Car+Math/ET+and+Horsepower+Calculators/HP+from+ET+and+Weight/default. aspx

 

[Dockboy]

Doug,



Those calculators do not work well for diesels!!



The best, and most accurate is the HP from 1/4 mi. Trap speed at Smokemup.com



See it HERE



As David said, ~750 hp for a 4500 lb. truck