Competition Nhra Super Stock Class For Diesel

[TurboTweaker]

hey Hammer would ya like some cheese with that whine, you sure don't say what to do about it you just complain. offer a solution instead of just trying to derail this class. ITS GETTING OLD! you so called adults need to grow up. find a practical solution to this and quit whining.



The Fat Kid

Andy



P. S. The Fat Kid plans on building a truck, even on my LOW budget. just takes some knowledge and some time but it will and can be done.

 

[COMP461]

Rules Same as SS/MODIFIED TRUCK with the following exceptions.



This class will be above minimum with driver at the end of the run.

Any light duty automotive diesel engine originally installed in a one ton truck and down is acceptable any internal modification is allowed.



TURBOCHARGER One ,Single turbocharger allowed variable turbos permitted

twin turbo chargers allowed with a 500 lbs weight addition . if the twin runs the restrictor for a single setup the weight is 250 lbs



Any size Single turbos , but will be required to run a restrictor in the atmosphere side of turbo . The final size and construction will be announced at a later date ,

range as of now is 2. 50 to 2. 88 inches



Any size Twin turbos ,but will be required to run a restrictor in the atmosphere side of turbo. The final size and construction will be announced at a later date ,

range is 2. 9 to 3. 0 inches



One Intercoolers allowed , air to water intercoolers allowed . water injection allowed with air to air intercooler only. Example air to water intercooler or water injection , but not both. Water injection or air to water intercooler is only allowed on single turbo Fluid in water injection is water only



TRANSMISSION any OEM allowed . Tran brake allowed .



Exhaust must be pointed up and back , so as to not obscure the lights or other lane







SS/Diesel/A ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . 4200 lbs



SS/Diesel/B... ... ... ... ... ... ..... 5200lbs

 

[Sled Puller]

As some of you don't seem to realize, when you set out on something like this, it is beneficial to gather as much info as you can-good, bad, indifferent.



Hammer and Comp both seem educated in the way NHRA works. Hammer is a realist, and tells it like it is, Comp is in Kansas, with Toto, telling of paved streets of gold... .



It amuses this outsider that Comp and Hammer both claim to have raced NHRA, but their stories are almost complete opposite.



I don't think Hammer is trying to derail anything, but rather, bring the negative to light, which Comp seems to ignore. Better to know whats coming, and prepare for it, than to shrug it off, and get bit down the road.

 

[COMP461]

Hammer and Comp both seem educated in the way NHRA works. Hammer is a realist, and tells it like it is, Comp is in Kansas, with Toto, telling of paved streets of gold... .

.

your right , I have race in NHRA , from working on Top Fuel , Fuel Funny Car , Pro Stock, and driving a competitive Competition Eliminator dragster. And as far as I’m concerned NHRA is the only way to go. You get what you put in to it , some one who talks bad about their experiences, in a hobby , should find a new hobby.

It amuses this outsider that Comp and Hammer both claim to have raced NHRA, but their stories are almost complete opposite.

 

[COMP461]

Here is what I would invision a SS/Diesel A looking like





Take davids truck and strip a 1200 LBS off , and the results would be low to mid 10 second run

 

[COMP461]

talked to NHRA today , the weight is no problem , there are super stockers over 5500 lbs now , the chassis tags are no problem. Talked to Mark Williams , and they felt there were no problems with it , and would address it if there were. have quite a few email address for the final rules , pm me any one else ,

 

[Fletcher]

NHRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dockboy]

Here is what I would invision a SS/Diesel A looking like





Take davids truck and strip a 1200 LBS off , and the results would be low to mid 10 second run

Greg,



I'm sorry but the only way to strip 1200 lbs more off Davids truck is to lift the body off, throw away the frame, and build a tube chassis!

 

[COMP461]

he is at 5500 lbs now , with weight in the back , with everthing striped it would be easy , A/C HEATER, 3/4 ton front end , clip it behind the rear window and back half it , , POWER STEERING . the 200 lbs od concrete in the back , he could easly get close.

 

[TurboTweaker]

HEY look what i found on comp461!

HALLSVILLE, Texas -- Competition Eliminator driver Greg Hogue will get a second shot at life during this weekend's resumption of the rained out Division 4 Federal Mogul Drag Racing Series race in Hallsville, Texas. Hogue had hurt a motor in qualifying in his Caliber Collision Centers/GM Performance Parts D/Econo Dragster, and was not going to be able to compete in eliminations before the torrential downpours came that postponed the race until August.

The new found time has been an ally to the Aledo, Texas based driver. The V-6 Chevy powerplant was sent back to engine builder, and former Eddie Hill crew chief, Al Weiss during the summer, and the Kirk Manuel team feels they have a better hand going into this weekend's race.



Hogue said, "We took the motor back up to Al Weiss' shop, and he went through it, and made some updates we have been meaning to make for a while, so we feel we are stronger than ever. I have a really tough opponent, Mike Trumble in the first round. I just hope that we can make our way to the finals. "



"If we can win this weekend, and go three rounds in Noble, we will have a shot at winning the Division 4 Championship. "



In addition to the new motor, Hogue has brought in the help of former Eddie Hill crew member Tom Keeter to serve as crew chief for this weekend.



"The last time we had Tom as our crew chief, we runner-uped in Memphis, so I feel real confident about our chances this weekend with him as a part of the team. "



Hogue is qualified No. 6 with 7. 834 (. 336 under) and will face No. 5 qualifier Mike Trumble in round one. Eliminations begin Saturday.

 

[COMP461]

Wow , a blast from the past , where did you find that , was a tough weekend , broke a Jessel belt drive belt , at 10,000 RPM’s thru the traps , took out a set of titanium valves , set of pistons , push rods , and all. We came back with about a 40 hp better motor , which was about . 015 better , but Mike , found about the same . I got mike on the tree , but I never could run him down , margin of victory on the race was . 0013 or about 6 inches , he caught a bye run the next round ,and put Charlie Stewart on the trailer in the semi finals , running Buddy Nickens in the finals . the “BUDD MAN” was his normal driving self , and living up to his famous Quote “ if my lights green , your late” Bud went . 501 on the tree to Mikes . 514 , Budd won the race , and Mike Trumble gained enough points in the JEG’s ALL-STARS to go to that invitation only race and won it .



That is the kind of deal I want in this NHRA super stock class, I don’t even have a truck to run in this class , but want to see diesels in a venue where they can progress , with the big money available . I hear from some of the biggest venders in the diesel market every day , with their enthusiastic support of this venture, these people are ready to build , and provide sponsorship for this class as soon as the rules are laid down.

 

[COMP461]

Rules Same as SS/MODIFIED TRUCK with the following exceptions.



This class will be above minimum with driver at the end of the run.

Any light duty automotive diesel engine originally installed in a one ton truck and down is acceptable any internal modification is allowed.



TURBOCHARGER One ,Single turbocharger allowed variable turbos permitted

twin turbo chargers allowed with a 500 lbs weight addition . if the twin runs the restrictor for a single setup the weight is 250 lbs



Any size Single turbos , but will be required to run a restrictor in the atmosphere side of turbo . The final size and construction will be announced at a later date ,

range as of now is 2. 50 to 2. 88 inches



Any size Twin turbos ,but will be required to run a restrictor in the atmosphere side of turbo. The final size and construction will be announced at a later date ,

range is 2. 9 to 3. 0 inches



One Intercoolers allowed , air to water intercoolers allowed . water injection allowed with air to air intercooler only. Example air to water intercooler or water injection , but not both. Water injection or air to water intercooler is only allowed on single turbo Fluid in water injection is water only



TRANSMISSION any OEM allowed . Tran brake allowed .



Exhaust must be pointed up and back , so as to not obscure the lights or other lane







SS/T/Diesel/A ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . 4200 lbs



SS/T/Diesel/B... ... ... ... ... ... ..... 5200lbs





The above is what we are going with , unless any one presents a valid change

__________________

 

[TurboTweaker]

THE FAT KID HAS AN IDEA!



with this restrictor idea you had greg, what about a big restrictor and a little restrictor. EXE



4200... ... Single turbo with 2. 50 restrictor

200 lbs addition for 2. 88 restrictor on a single.

250 lbs addition for 2. 50 restrictor on twins.

500 lbs addition for 2. 88 restrictor on twins.



same goes for the 5200 lb SS/T/Diesel/B



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[COMP461]

sounds like a great ideal, might make the twin a little bigger , like 3. 0 inches , any one else have a ideal

 

[COMP461]

there is a rumor going around that NHRA takes 2 to 3 years , this is absoultly untrue, this can be in place this year .

 

[sbentz]

I have been watching and not jumping in until now.



Overall, I think that the general theory sounds good. Kind of like Greg, I have no "dog in this fight" as our dragster does not even fit this class.



My 2 cents:



Agree to the NO ELECTRONICS! Throttle stops and delay boxes kill the thrill.



Agree to the Restrictors. Restrictors in general level the playing field and make tech simple.



Fuel restriction, #2 or Bio. No "funny stuff"... (but how do you police it?)



Nitrous? Not in SS, but we need to get it opened up for Turbo Diesels in general if you want to play.



Emergency Kill on manual injection pumps should be required.



Let's just make sure that we make it safe, and no oil on the track. Some guy was blaming the right lane issue that Whit Bazemore was crying about at the World finals on us laying down "soot". We ran 2 hours AFTER him, and the soot goes up! Luckily others jumped in and stood up for us.

 

[COMP461]

Thanks Scott , you know the reaction , both public , and up stairs we both got . NHRA wants us ,and the demographics diesels represent.



The great thing about Super Stock is there stiff penalty for delay boxes , and the electronics gurus at NHRA are experts at checking .



Fuel is no problem , Scott , we could get Bio diesel to provide the Spec fuel for all the diesels thru some one like VP . you would be required to run that spec diesel. NHRA fuel tech will pull a sample of the fuel , on your truck every run , just like they do now on gas races . the Fuel guys are high tech with the ability to check if the fuel has been altered. In NHRA if you monkey with fuel , it out you go, with your name on the 4th page of the national dragster as a cheater. And a big fine with a suspension.



The kill switch issue has been address , you will have to run a electro mechanical fuel valve , on mechanical pump motors . I researched them ,and the flow is more then adequate . and it looks like a big nitrous solenoid.



The ideal behind the restrictors is a great ideal, a small set of twins would be very clean, and spool quick. NHRA wants a little smoke , but people that don’t comply will be warned , clean is faster any way , most people over fuel any way

 

[ctd8999]

Nhra

Comp, You make mention of racing in front of thousands of race fans. Well out of the 64 car field there will be 16 cars there in front of the large crowd out of the SS class because the rest of the class lost on Friday morning, first round being at 7:30 not in front of to many race fans. Ever notice when your at the big race when the PRO's are qualifing or running elim. the stands are full of fans. When they're session is over the stands empty out. 30 years ago the Sportsman classes were a larger part of the show, at least you had a chance to race in front of the small crowd that was there on Saturday. You may have a major sponser, I don't know, but through the years, the way the prices of speed equipment as gone up NHRA has not followed this trend with there pay-outs. So why would you try to convince everyone that this is where they want to be? Why not try to make the DHRA a larger event? NHRA I'm sure are intrested in this idea you have, but only for one thing and thats your money. I and my family raced a SS/FA car from 1971-1983. so I've seen the way things have changed. Stay in your own group with the diesels and make diesel only events larger. Just my $00. 02. Thanks Steve B.

 

[COMP461]

I have race both competition eliminator , with a D/ED , C/ED , as C/A , I’ve also run SS/DM , and Super street . Sure the fans aren’t as up for a stocker as a top fueler , but the ideal , that no one is their to watch is totally wrong , there are people in the pits , in the stands , the press from national dragster ,and many avenues to get press. And exposure for a SS diesel.



You want to know the real reason I race , its not for the money , or the fanfare , but the feeling I get when I am able to work on a racing project and try and make mine faster then the guy, that worked just as hard in the other lane. That work is comprised of long hours , and brain teaser , trying to work just a little more out of you race car , or truck. To do this you need stable rules , that are going to be in play for many years to come . this stability gives you the confidences that the blood sweat and tears you put in you project will not be negated by a frivolous rule chance . Stability also gives you the barraging chips necessary to sell a partner , sponsored , spouse on the investment of money , time , and mental capital to achieve your personal goals.



Something that my team mate Charlie Stewart , says ever time we all wake up at the race track , “ GUESS WHAT , ISN’T IT GREAT , WE GET TO DRAG RACE TODAY”. That feeling is something shared by racers from John force , right down to the slowest stocker at the track, the feeling you only get at a NHRA nation event , of being part of something that Wally Parks started 50 odd years ago.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I'm sorry but I can't take this any more.



ideal - n.

1. A conception of something in its absolute perfection.

2. One that is regarded as a standard or model of perfection or excellence.

3. An ultimate object of endeavor; a goal.

4. An honorable or worthy principle or aim.



adj.

1.

 a) Of, relating to, or embodying an ideal.

 b) Conforming to an ultimate form or standard of perfection or excellence.

2. Considered the best of its kind.

3. Completely or highly satisfactory: The location of the new house is ideal.

4.

 a) Existing only in the mind; imaginary.

  b) Lacking practicality or the possibility of realization.

5. Of, relating to, or consisting of ideas or mental images.

6. Philosophy.

 a) Existing as an archetype or pattern, especially as a Platonic idea or perception.

 b) Of or relating to idealism.



idea - n.

1. Something, such as a thought or conception, that potentially or actually exists in the mind as a product of mental activity.

2. An opinion, conviction, or principle: has some strange political ideas.

3. A plan, scheme, or method.

4. The gist of a specific situation; significance: The idea is to finish the project under budget.

5. A notion; a fancy.

6. Music. A theme or motif.

7. Philosophy.

 a) In the philosophy of Plato, an archetype of which a corresponding being in phenomenal reality is an imperfect replica.

 b) In the philosophy of Kant, a concept of reason that is transcendent but nonempirical.

 c) In the philosophy of Hegel, absolute truth; the complete and ultimate product of reason.

8. Obsolete. A mental image of something remembered.



Any time you plan on using the word ideal use idea instead please - I haven't seen a single time when you meant ideal. It's like hearing someone say axe when they mean ask.



BTW, I think it's worth mentioning that the DHRA is an NHRA-approved alternate sanctioning organization. Their rules have been VERY stable as well.