Competition Nhra Super Stock Class For Diesel

[Fletcher]

I'm sorry but I can't take this any more.



ideal - n.

1. A conception of something in its absolute perfection.

2. One that is regarded as a standard or model of perfection or excellence.

3. An ultimate object of endeavor; a goal.

4. An honorable or worthy principle or aim.



adj.

1.

 a) Of, relating to, or embodying an ideal.

 b) Conforming to an ultimate form or standard of perfection or excellence.

2. Considered the best of its kind.

3. Completely or highly satisfactory: The location of the new house is ideal.

4.

 a) Existing only in the mind; imaginary.

  b) Lacking practicality or the possibility of realization.

5. Of, relating to, or consisting of ideas or mental images.

6. Philosophy.

 a) Existing as an archetype or pattern, especially as a Platonic idea or perception.

 b) Of or relating to idealism.



idea - n.

1. Something, such as a thought or conception, that potentially or actually exists in the mind as a product of mental activity.

2. An opinion, conviction, or principle: has some strange political ideas.

3. A plan, scheme, or method.

4. The gist of a specific situation; significance: The idea is to finish the project under budget.

5. A notion; a fancy.

6. Music. A theme or motif.

7. Philosophy.

 a) In the philosophy of Plato, an archetype of which a corresponding being in phenomenal reality is an imperfect replica.

 b) In the philosophy of Kant, a concept of reason that is transcendent but nonempirical.

 c) In the philosophy of Hegel, absolute truth; the complete and ultimate product of reason.

8. Obsolete. A mental image of something remembered.



Any time you plan on using the word ideal use idea instead please - I haven't seen a single time when you meant ideal. It's like hearing someone say axe when they mean ask.



BTW, I think it's worth mentioning that the DHRA is an NHRA-approved alternate sanctioning organization. Their rules have been VERY stable as well.

Simply impressive. A dictionary scholar. The definition of "santioning body"

is: yeah, we use the insurance, too. And your point was? :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Actually, I believe it also means that the NHRA has significant input on the rules and regulations (has to approve them in the end) and that the alternate sanctioning body has to abide by certain guidelines set out by the NHRA. My point was that a significant amount of effort has been put out by a number of people (both people that founded and run the DHRA and racers) that is being discounted by a number of people and I think that is very unfortunate. I've never understood needing to discount the work of others to further an enterprise. I was simply bringing up the point that there already is NHRA participation in diesel drag racing which many people probably do not realize.



I would love to see this succeed as well and wish all those involved all the luck and success that they deserve. I just wish that all parties on all sides of a sport would respect each others efforts as well.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

To whom ever wants to reply, why is it I get the feeling you are against the DHRA? Why would you go with the NHRA rather than the DHRA? I really get that impression from the west coast crowd, give me some background as to why. Thanks

 

[sbentz]

Steve, I truly respect the work that Eric and you have done in the past, and the work that Eric is doing today to get the DHRA to the point that it is. We took our car to TIM last year, and had a ball. Even though we are not officially a DHRA sanctioned car, we were allowed to run and have fun along side the "sanctioned" trucks. I even poked fun at Eric in a couple e-mails afterwards, asking where my tow and show money was, as we were a good draw for the event. He fell for it and offered to pay. I admitted that I was bluffing and just wanted to tell him that we enjoyed it so much that we would not take $1 from him. We are going to go at Indy this year to help support him and the DHRA again, and continue to support the diesel drag racing sport in any way we can.



I was not originally going to respond to the SS posting of Greg's as I do not have any personal interest in the class, as we are doing more of a exhibition / outlaw deal with our dragster. The more that I read caused me to at least throw my worthless opinion out for support of any diesel NHRA sanctioned bracket, in ADDITION to the DHRA sub-sanctioning body. The more the merrier, in my opinion. At the end of the day, the best will win. Or they will all survive, providing different things to different people.



Yes, the difficulty out here today is do you step inline behind the first person to do this, and ignore the second, for fear that it may weaken the first, or do you do what our plan is, to pick and choose any and all that look like fun, to make the overall support of diesel drag racing in general? My plan is to attend as many events in any area we can, with no concern as to who is sanctioning or who runs it. I could not really care less. Our event in Denver (Cummins Truck Fest) is not sanctioned by anyone now for exactly that reason. Too may people fighting and fueding has caused the Bandimere crew to see no value in having any official association with a sanctioning body that may actually limit the participants.



To get the issues on the table, there are a few people that do not want to follow Eric's plan with the DHRA, and are doing their own thing. Greg Hogue for one, by trying to get the NHRA to do a class within NHRA - SS direct, and the NW guys (NHRdA) for two. Heck, the DDRA is still out there, too. NHRA has fought this battle for years, and you still see IHRA, ADRA, and others popping up to fill what they believe is a need. Many racers run only one, and others run them all. Again, each to their own.



The issue that many people talk about but rarely put in this forum, is that fact that Eric is a diesel racer AND the head of a sanctioning body (DHRA). Some feel that it is a conflict of interest. I disagree. If he wants to try to do it, and balance his interests, fine. I feel that it is a tough balance of time and priorities, when you are trying to service your racers, while seeking sponsors and funding for a car and your sanctioning body at the same time. I think that time will pull him in one direction or the other. Let the water seek it's own level.



I personally have a problem today, trying to run a car, work for Cummins full time, and then try to help other Cummins powered racers when I see them struggling, as the #1 thing that I want to see is Cummins ahead of any other diesel engine. I have offered help to teams or individuals and see a look of shock on their faces, as they think I am the enemy. Far from the truth. Ask Greg, Fletcher, Eric, Maddog, Edge and others. I try to help where I can. As long as Cummins finishes first, I am pleased. If we are lucky enough to be that car, even better for us.



All of us need to work together, regardless of sanctioning body, class of vehicle, or personal interests. If it is a diesel drag racer, or sled puller, then by god, help the guy in any way you can to help build this sport. The more we fight between ourselves, the more we look like a bunch of immature egomaniacs. I like the good natured ribbing as much as anyone, and throw a bit in from time to time, but until we have a solid footing in this sport, with strong recognition as a accepted class of racers, we need to support each other. If that is 1, 2, or 3 sanctioning bodies, then so be it. One cannot be everything to every one. Learn from each other. Maybe at the end of the day, we only need one. Maybe the new kid on the block does it better.



Competition and Choice, the Strength of America, God Bless it.



Heck, Steve, you thought YOU were on a rant!

 

[Cooker]

FWIW - The use of "ideal" was driving me nuts too



GIT-R-DONE, I agree is seems like there is a screw the DHRA attitude I guess personal differences/opinions is also the reason some people drive Fords or Chevys

 

[HOSS]

All of us need to work together, regardless of sanctioning body, class of vehicle, or personal interests. If it is a diesel drag racer, or sled puller, then by god, help the guy in any way you can to help build this sport. The more we fight between ourselves, the more we look like a bunch of immature egomaniacs. I like the good natured ribbing as much as anyone, and throw a bit in from time to time, but until we have a solid footing in this sport, with strong recognition as a accepted class of racers, we need to support each other. If that is 1, 2, or 3 sanctioning bodies, then so be it. One cannot be everything to every one. Learn from each other. Maybe at the end of the day, we only need one. Maybe the new kid on the block does it better.



Competition and Choice, the Strength of America, God Bless it.

My thoughts exactly

 

[COMP461]

The reason for Super Stock Diesel is not to compete with the DHRA, but to find a sanction body that would establish a stabile set of rules that would not change ever time the wind blows . This class would become a premier class, where the major manufactory and vendors, would feel comfortable in putting money. Where a guy could build a truck over a few years, as he could afford it, with the hopes that the class would not dramatically change rules.



I don’t even have a dog in this hunt, my truck, would not even be included. The total ground swell of support from the racers, both diesel, and gas is overwhelming, along with the support from diesel vendor, wanting a place to build high end truck, with out the worry of having a very expensive conversation peace, because the rules changes.



I and several others have put in a lot of work to make this happen, and it is going to become a great place for us to race, acquire the recognition and sponsorship opportunities we need to take diesels to the next level. None of the officials at NHRA have an interest in, or drive a race car in competition in a NHRA sanction event. , this is simple a conflict of interest, is every way. This is a problem!!!!!. Now on the other hand Eric dose not compete, in any money winning event at a DHRA race,



The super stock class would not hurt DHRA in any way, in fact it would help is several ways, and here are a few examples.



1 A few years ago THE GOOD GUY SERIES a Alternate sanction body , much like DHRA had a class called Junior Fuel , this class was populated by some really good races , not a whole lot of expensive cars , and no chance of sponsorship , they dreamed of bigger things also , just like us . The exception was that their sanction body went hand in hand with them on petitioning NHRA to give them a place to race.



None of their officials called NHRA and demanded that NHRA release a statement that this was never going to happen, or that everything should be referred inquires to the GOOD GUYS SERIES officials. They worked together, and NHRA gave them an index in Competition Eliminator, this class become A/ nostalgic dragster. The class grew, and a man by the name of Dean Carter, who was a modest racer in the GGS, started to run a few NHRA races, also continuing to run his GGS races . the rest is history. Dean Carter has been crowned NHRA competition eliminator Champ for the second year in a row. This year he has picked up a major sponsor ship in Lucas Oil. The GGS is stronger then ever, the big named sponsored vehicles are every where, and their events are a big draw because of the A/ND .



The moral to this is that we could have worked together, but when you draw a line in the sand it is some times hard to step back over. Unless you realize that the other side is gaining in popularity. The class we are working for in NHRA is almost finalized in the rules , NHRA wants light , fast , reliable race trucks not toys that belch excessive smoke and break every time they go to the line. If you want to help and be a part of this, its open, and your voice will be heard and considered,

If on the other hand you want to distract the process by being ridiculous, in talking about grammar, or any other item that is not positive, find some where else to play. We all know who is against this and why, and your being a puppet to distract the people on here has been duly noted.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Now dont take this the wrong way Comp, as I am just trying to understand this... .



So your saying that the DHRA always changes the rules for racers and thats why you dont support it? Maybe I am off base here, but, just wanting to know what / why you feel that you have to go to the NHRA when the DHRA is on its way up. Is there that much money involved that the DHRA cant provide yet?



Personally I think its great the the diesel sport has grown to even what it is now, let alone getting bigger. I am just looking for a better understanding of this, thats all.



I also get the feeling that some people like to "beat around the bush" so to speak about their feeling, why not let it all hang out so the rest of us dont have to assume we all know what is going on... ...



Thanks

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

sigh - I haven't spoken up about anything until now. The grammar thing is just a personal pet peeve and really has nothing to do with anything on here - I just have to sit through and read all these posts and it drives me nuts just like listening to someone say "I axed him something". If you took that as an attempt to distract people I apologize.



I AM trying to be positive here. If you read my other post you'd have noticed that I mentioned "In some cases there may be very valid reasons (looking for a different level of competition/fan base - ie 10,000+ fans right now which a growing organization can't provide for example)" and in that I am specifically speaking to what your trying to do here. My primary point I was trying to make with my last comment above and also with the other post was "especially when dealing with a limited population sport/hobby such as ours this REALLY hurts us all in the end. While we may not agree with everything that a certain person/group of people may be doing we would get much further ahead if we would try to set aside our differences and work with what we have in common. United we stand/divided we fall!? Even if two parties cannot find a way to work together at the very least they can avoid working against one another for the overall betterment of our hobby. " That's speaking to all sides of this! I hate to see anyone in our hobby working against someone else and I would love to see that stop and for everyone to work together. I'm not knocking anyone individually or any particular event/class/sanctioning body/etc. I'm simply trying to say that everyone should play nice and not try to knock the other guys down.



If you read my post above completely you also would have seen that I said "I would love to see this succeed as well and wish all those involved all the luck and success that they deserve. I just wish that all parties on all sides of a sport would respect each others efforts as well. "

 

[COMP461]

We all need a grammar lesson some times; I had to date my 2nd semester rhetoric and composition TA to get a C. She was a nice sweet girl, with a great personality, If you can remember that line.

The reason I am pushing this because of the total out pouring I have been getting from diesel racers that want to race at a National event type environment. The total exposure is not available, and there is nothing any one from any alternate sanction body can do, to hurry it up. This is business also, the manufactures, and vendor want a place to put diesel vehicles in an advantageous position to give them exposure. If you want to see diesel racing just for the sake of racing, with only small operations, then an alternate sanction body in its infancy will be the place. If on the other hand you would like to see more race trucks on the level of mine, Fletchers, Keith Locklears, and Banks new truck . Then the only outlet is some where the demographics is such that the exposure is sufficient to warrant the money spent. Sure the truck we are proposing when built to state of the art racers will be very expensive, but the neat thing about SS is you don’t have to build to that level to compete, a guy with good skills can build a truck that would be just as competitive, as it is a bracket race, the only exception is when you catch a racer from you own class. This doesn’t always work out that way.



I get calls every day from vendors supporting this, they are staying under the radar screen now, but many have expressed an egger enthusiasm to participate, ever time I mention one thou they get subtle calls fro m people that don’t want this to be successful.

 

[COMP461]

every body wensday is the day we close the page on any sugestion ,

 

[DHRA]

Great posts Scott and Steve - although we are not a sub (meaning below or less than) sanctioning body we are a full sanctioning body just as the NHRA or IHRA. I have been sitting here trying to write something great but can't come up with anything worthy. I can, however, explain what an alternate sanctioning organization means. The NHRA has a rule with their member tracks that they will not allow another rulebook to be used on those tracks unless the name of the organization is listed with NHRA's ASO list. There are currently 9 ASOs and it is VERY hard to obtain it. They require a extremely complete rulebook that they go over with a fine toothed comb looking for safety. They verify our insurance, and our legitimacy as a business. NHRA does not care what the classes are, just that they are safe and not outrageous. NHRA does answer all my questions about their history in evolution (pertaining to classes) and they make suggestions of which I take seriously.

I thank Steve for creating the "ignore user" feature as it has kept me from my boiling point on numerous occasions.

I resent the negative remarks made about DHRA. It is much bigger than me, we have a great staff of dieselheads and 150 members (last year's number) that you slap everytime you say something. I also resent the fact that when RR was "banned" from Mission because of their diesel prejudice, my efforts toward a remedy with NHRA were disregarded and I was told that I always take credit for anything that happens with diesel drag racing. That was a low blow since I spent time and effort with John Miller at NHRA on getting the rule changed at NHRA, in which they did adapt to the DHRA rule for pickup truck crankshaft height. That I won't forget and I will deal with those parties personally.

I wish COMP well and even called him to say so in person, I hope that we all can continue to grow the diesel industry in a constructive manner. DHRA will continue to be the best choice for diesel motorsports, mark my word!

 

[COMP461]

Fletch tell us what you really think, I'm in the dark on this one.



inquiring minds want to know

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Fletch tell us what you really think, I'm in the dark on this one.



inquiring minds want to know

I also get the feeling that some people like to "beat around the bush" so to speak about their feeling, why not let it all hang out so the rest of us dont have to assume we all know what is going on... ...



Now, COMP, your starting to understand where the rest of us are at on this one,...



seems some dont know how to get their feeling down to the keyboard.

 

[Turbo Thom]

One truck I see that has been elimated from competition by the rules as they are now is Darren's. Twin turbo's, water injection and no intercooler. Spays directly into air intake. To much work to backup. If I'm wrong tell me to hush... ... ... . Well, there is always DHRA. Somebody's going to see that 761 HP run.



. . Preston. .

 

[COMP461]

Water is going to be allowed , we hope , NHRA is starting to understand on that , The rule as proposed now is air to water intercooler , or water injection. NHRA dose not want to police what is in the water , with the exception that Nitro and Propylene oxide is forbidden in all NHRA classes

 

[COMP461]

Rules Same as SS/MODIFIED TRUCK with the following exceptions.

1990 and newer half ton truck and smaller as named by manufactory.

This class will be above minimum with driver at the end of the run.

Any light duty automotive diesel engine originally installed in a one ton truck and down is acceptable any internal modification is allowed.



TURBOCHARGER One ,Single turbocharger allowed variable turbos permitted

twin turbo chargers allowed with a 500 lbs weight addition . if the twin runs the restrictor for a single setup the weight is 300 lbs



Any size Single turbos , but will be required to run a restrictor in the atmosphere side of turbo . The final size and construction will be announced at a later date ,





Any size Twin turbos ,but will be required to run a restrictor in the atmosphere side of turbo. The final size and construction will be announced at a later date ,





Intercoolers allowed , air to water intercoolers allowed . water injection allowed with air to air intercooler only. Example air to water intercooler or water injection , but not both.



TRANSMISSION any OEM allowed . Tran brake allowed .



Exhaust must be pointed up and back , so as to not obscure the lights or other lane







SS/T/Diesel/A ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . 4200 lbs



SS/T/Diesel/B... ... ... ... ... ... ..... 5200 lbs



minimum weight ... ... Single turbo with 2. 50 restrictor

minimum weight + 300 lbs addition for 3. 00 restrictor on a single.

minimum weight + 300 lbs addition for 2. 50 restrictor on twins.

minimum weight + 500 lbs addition for 3. 00 restrictor on twins.







The above is what we are going with , unless any one presents a valid change

 

[Fletcher]

Keep Going Greg !

 

[TurboTweaker]

Git-R-Done! and i'll start building a truck

 

[COMP461]

I just got in from the NHRA winter nationals in Pomona , the comp car we went three rounds . I got a talk with every one from NHRA , and this is gathering momentum. NHRA is also wanting a potentional rules fro a competition eliminator class, this would be the ultimate for me. But back to super stock , this is ready the end of this week