Competition Nhra Super Stock Modified Truck /diesel

[Stefan Kondolay]

Unfortunately Super Stock often does come down to money, one of the reasons that they have rules on certain parts is so that guys aren't spending stupid amounts of money. Although I would say the average SS car cost between $30-50 000. Although some may spend $10 000 and some spend over $100 000 just depends on budget and if you have to purchase from others.



Remember the only time that you have to worry about being the fastest is when you draw a heads up (quality against someone else in the same class). Other than that it's just a bracket race.

 

[COMP461]

This wouldn't have anything to do with the set-up you all ready run and some influence on NHRA to limit this would it

And don't go telling me NHRA is restricting the turbo inlet for safety sake. A simple screen or cross will hold the parts in if a turbo decides to let go. A small one will lay down the same amount of oil a big one will.

I don’t even have a truck to run this yet , might in the future , but not yet . the reason for the restrictor is simple , this doesn’t need to be ProMod , but a racers class , one where the motors are reliable and repeatable , not one off bonzo passes, the way to make this happen is to restrict power , plain and simple. The real engine builders will innovate and develop motors combination that will run hard with in the rules. In other words he who can build power with other then hanging bigger turbos on the engines will rule in class eliminations. Super stock is a premier class , where there are no electronic cheats , like delay boxes, and throttle stops . the focus here is to run round after round in a very short amount of time. With little maintenance. The truck need to run with a tight dial of something like . 002 seconds. Want to empress some one win a Super Stock Wally at a NHRA national event in a diesel . Do I believe it can be done , hell yes , a diesel makes its own air with a turbo, and therefore is less susceptible to density altitude changes , then a gas motor. This make for the ability to dial the combination tight. To much power make a inconsistent race vehicle. I believe this combination will make around 700 hp this will make for a low 10 second truck.

I don't see why the rules should be tailored to hold one guy back because his setup makes more power than his competitors within simple rules. They want to hold one guy back and move one guy forward? NHRA might think this is good racing but not me. .

Who is this mysterious person , this one guy . NHRA is listening to us!!!!! , and the list of people participating is comprised or quite a few big names on here. . No body wants to hold any one back. But we want diversity , not just one brand . when you start to write rules you have to be fair . If we wanted a DuraMax to rule we would just make the minimum weight 3500 lbs .







This class will become the head line class for diesels for now, until the rules for competition eliminator are finished . you will get more exposure then is possible any place else , this is real racing with car counts of 40 to 150 at most races , the sponsorship dollars are there and really to be claimed. Get on the wagon , because these rules will be the final word, in a short amount of time.

 

[nascar mark]

Hey Stef,



Its been a long time. Say hi to your mom and dad for me.



I'm not a big fan of bracket racing as you might as well have a Hugo class going door to door and the winner is the one closest to a 49. 99 sec 1/4 mile. YeeeHaaaa.



My point is, I would like to see diesel racing less complicated by keeping it simple. Bring what you have within a class based on weight, single or twin turbo's, drugs (yes water meth is a drug) etc. Truck size, year or engine size doesn't matter as long as it is production based block, using stock based crank, rods, head, injection pump or rail and high pressure pump. Modify from there whether you use a dremel or a CNC machine. He(( let the Toyota's and Nissans in if you want, as long as they make the min. weight.



Just don't hold the power back and let the power be built within the classes whether the guy wants to hang a 150lb turbo on to make the power or a HY35.

 

[nascar mark]

Who is this mysterious person , this one guy . NHRA is listening to us!!!!! , and the list of people participating is comprised or quite a few big names on here. . No body wants to hold any one back. But we want diversity , not just one brand . when you start to write rules you have to be fair . If we wanted a DuraMax to rule we would just make the minimum weight 3500 lbs .

Not one guy. Diesel racers as a whole, whether they have a Ford, Chevy or Dodge etc.



Speculation and your Dmax dream will get you no were. Make it happen and until then your just blowing steam.



It's as simple as making things fair by a min. weight, stock based main block components and bolt on fuel systems.

 

[COMP461]

Not one guy. Diesel racers as a whole, whether they have a Ford, Chevy or Dodge etc. .

that is the reason we are working on making it fair and equable for all.

Speculation and your Dmax dream will get you no were. Make it happen and until then your just blowing steam. .

So far everything I have set out to do has happen , to go from not know any thing about the workings of a diesel to building some of the most advanced Cummins long blocks ,in two and years is a feat in it self. You might say this isn’t so, but the number is still on the score board, at least for a little while longer.

It's as simple as making things fair by a min. weight, stock based main block components and bolt on fuel systems.

Do you want to tear down you diesel after qualifying day , and lay a piston , rod, and head on the bench . I didn’t think so , so the only way is in the modified class, where any motor modification goes , with the exception of a few simple performance limiting items . the reason is we want a racers class, not ProMod , with this races class comes many non diesel guys wanting to race truck, and vendors wanting to sponsor these Professional sportsman type races. In any case this is almost a wrap, if you have input , pm me and ill call you and discuss you ideals

 

[CMNS PWR]

I say call NHRA and see if this is all legit, or if he is pulling the sheet...

 

[COMP461]

Be My Guest , Eric Lowe 626 250 2209

 

[RacinDuallie]

I see the desire to make up class for a racers class. Not how much ya got in yer pocket but how well you preform and react on the track. Sweeeeeeeet. Come on everybody!Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[COMP461]

Rules Same as SS/MODIFIED TRUCK with the following exceptions.

1990 and newer 1 ton truck and smaller as named by manufactory. Body style must have been available with a diesel duelly fender covers allowed on any truck same year as truck

This class will be above minimum weight with driver at the end of the run.



ENGINE Any light duty automotive diesel engine originally installed in a one ton truck and down is acceptable any internal modification is allowed



CYLINDER HEAD OEM generally available , cast , no billet.



TURBOCHARGER Any size turbo, turbo’s , maximum two turbo’s 300 lbs weight break for single non variable vane turbo . Single variable vane turbo 150 lbs weight break



INLET RESTRICTOR to be determined by NHRA and adjusted if necessary . restrictor will be on the atmosphere side of the turbo or turbo’s a go, no-go gage will determine if the hole is of legal size .



INTERCOOLERS air to air intercooler or air to water .



WATER INJECTION water injection permitted any mixture of water / methanol windshield washer fluid is permitted , propylene oxidize or any other oxygenated agents prohibited.



TRANSMISSION any OEM transmission allowed . Tran brake allowed .



EXHAUST must be pointed up , so as to not obscure the lights or other lane



AIR and FUEL SHUTOFF on mechanical fuel injected pumps a mandatory NHRA acceptable electrical shut off valve shall be installed inline between the lift pump and the injection pump body. A NHRA acceptable air shut off shall be installed either on the atmospheric side , or the pressure side of the turbo, device must close when electrical power is shut off

TIRES any size tire permitted



.



FUEL to be NHRA excepted diesel fuel example VP race diesel , Pure Purple or Number 2 diesel . The use of propylene oxide or any other oxygenated agents prohibited



SS/T/Diesel/A ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . 4300 lbs



SS/T/Diesel/B... ... ... ... ... ... ..... 5300 lbs





ok this is finnal. going in today

 

[RacinDuallie]

I'm confused with the interpetation of the rules... ... who here has a light duty rated Cummins??? And the trans interpetation leaves loopholes as to which OEM trans used. And the water/meth is now o. k. ?


I'd like to see the final NHRA print of this proposed class allowance reguarding us- with our MEDIUM DUTY RATED diesels...

 

[Turbo Thom]

RD... ... ... . I don't think we would have a problem, since we only have that one engine in the Dodge. What else would we run?

 

[RacinDuallie]

Preston,
One must make very clear the interpetation of proposed rules -cause as soon as its set in stone- the real racers will look for loopholes and ways around the interpetation of said rules. Oo.

I just want to clarify that the Ford and Chevy classify their diesel engines as "light duty" - yes or no? I want to also classify that the Cummins engines in all our Dodges are "medium duty" -yes or no? The above proposed rules already have us outlawed:{ See what I mean? Then you'll have a beaten,disgrunteled Chebbie racer who will file a protest cause he lost to a medium duty diesel with his light duty Chebbie- and then where ya at? :-{}

I can see the desire to get this party started but let's make sure that the rules are suitable for all.

 

[COMP461]

The term light or medium is something Ford, Dodge and Chevy use, the Cummins 5. 9 the Powerstroke, and the Duramax are all light duty in the diesel world. But you are right ,some people will try and bend the rules around , I have seen it a lot this year in comp. so how about this any light duty diesel engine that came in a 1 ton truck and smaller , IE Cummins 5. 9 , ford Powerstroke , and Chevy Duramax . Must be NHRA excepted





That last sentence will fix the problem

 

[RacinDuallie]

This class does seem to hold hidden advantages to the Chevy and Ford camps- Will there be any proposed weight break for the two extra cylinders that the Chevy and Ford has? Compared to our meager 6 cylinders? Just like to know where we stand being I believe we run the heavier engine with less cylinders than the other guys. I know I'd like to move the weight around but alot of that mass is situated up front under the hood whereas the Duramax is 400 something pounds lighter than the Cummins... . 400 pounds is ALOT of weight that is at our disadvantage because of its location... ... ..... And that weight would be helpful to help plant the slicks to the tarmac... .

See we gotta tighten up these loopholes some.


just throwin this out there... ... . whatcha think?

 

[RacinDuallie]

Here's another one- Is my water/meth cell subject to sampling of the contents inside at anytime ?


And in my diesel world our Cummins has always been a Medium Duty engine- until the Cummins engine gets its rating changed it will be a medium duty engine, that's how the maker classifies it as- so should the Sanctioning racing body that allows it to race, clear as mud? Just want to keep the rules in this dogfight fair and clear. Remember a protest is subject to a teardown and there are plenty of ol comp racers that like to protest the smallest thing- if there may be a clear advantage lying there somewhere.....

 

[RacinDuallie]

Yet another post!:{
Greg,
As per our conversation on the phone:

I just think this would have a better advantage towards the Duramax's. They are lighter in weight- on the front of the truck already. To my thinking- that's an advantage to you and a disadvantage towards me-now I'm up against 2 extra cylinders and their airflow over my 6- and now you have a weight distribution advantage over me as well.....

I just want to see all the camps at an equal. You build your chevy - and I build my Dodge and your at an advantage already.

And by having us self policing the watermeth cell wouldn't work either as I figured a loophole through that one as well ... .....

This has to be equal and fair across the board. Anybody else have any thoughts that should be brought to our attention?

And Greg- I don't have a rule book in front of me right now but- what's it say about body material content?

(Preston- you keeping up with this?
:-laf :-laf )

 

[Turbo Thom]

Yeah, still here. But I thought he said the water/meth was "any mixture". And on the weight issue, you're right, but then the others can't get 1500 lbs of torque either. I still would take my Dodge out of the hole with the torque it pulls with. After the 1/8 mile their HP would give us a problem with the high reving V8's. The Cummins is still the fastest engine in America, as of now. Not to say the other won't make it, but there is a long way to go for them to catch up. You know how hard a 1/10 is to get.



This whole thing Greg's talking about, sounds kinda cool.



. . Preston. .

 

[RacinDuallie]

Yeah, still here. But I thought he said the water/meth was "any mixture. And on the weight issue, you're right, but then the others can't get 1500 lbs of torque either. I still would take my Dodge out of the hole with the torque it pulls with. After the 1/8 mile their HP would give us a problem with the high reving V8's. The Cummins is still the fastest engine in America, as of now. Not to say the other won't make it, but there is a long way to go for them to catch up. You know how hard a 1/10 is to get.

This whole thing Greg's talking about, sounds kinda cool.

. . Preston. .

Preston,

He was telling me about the group self policing the water/meth. You know tongue in cheek- A gentlemen's class- . Like that ever works:-{}

And on that weight issue which I see as one of the hurdles for us Dodge racers, tell me what equallity is it gonna be when that chevy has 400 something pounds over the Dodge to strategically place at the rear of that chevy whereas we are stuck with that mass at the front of our Dodges? I'll tell ya what-I'd rather have the better weight distribution aiding me in launching off the line rather than dragging the nose off the line and having the rear slicks scratching fer traction... ... .
And how you gonna make 1500lbs of torque with a restrictor in the inlet, and a weight break for adding another turbo and NO NITROS OXIDE??? Just taint gunna happen.

Look at this new class as an owner-builder- racer; and from that standpoint we with our Dodges are facing some pretty tall hurdles, just to be able to be competitive.....

Greg is a Comp Racer, always was-always will. So I can see through all this as a racer and plainly see which vehicle would have the most advantage at this. And if you think Greg is gunna show up in a Dodge- you'd be wrong. Look back on all his talk about how the Duramax is more superior? Weighs less? Better airflow- ect. And heck he even stated he was working on a 'new program' do you think it's with the good doctor? You'd be wrong again. I can see where he's going with this but Greg let's be fair now. It takes a racer to catch a racer- and when you see a racer talking proposed rules you have to make sure that these rules are fair for everybody involved and not bent in anyway to give an advantage... ..... And so far I see the advantage going to a Chevy- Hey Greg- you still have those old G. M. Performance Parts uniforms?? Lol- bet your getting new ones.

To say it another way- You decide to build a rail for Top Fuel competition or build a FunnyCar- you wouldn't plan to stick a chebbie motor in there would ya? It just wouldn't be competitive in those classes- see what I mean sorta?

 

[RacinDuallie]

:{ Here look at it another way take three different trucks setup @ 4000lbs dryweight- One Chevy,one Ford-and one Dodge; put them all on 4 separate wheel scales and you'll see the where the weight is on these different trucks and you'll see why I think the Dodges would be at a disadvantage here... And even if you can make more power with no juice and restricter- how ya gonna plant the slicks with that weight disadvantage? Properly tuned 4link rear suspension with elec. controlled adjustable shocks will help some- but not with that weight distribution disadvantage working for them and against us. . . . . .

I used that 4000lb. dryweight average, with the rest of the weight to be added with the fluids and driver- but I suspect trucks will be built -the right way-will actually weigh less than that, with weight added to meet the class requirements.