Nicktane 1 micron filter??

[AH64ID]

Oh but wait... . the FASS system is continuously recirculating the fuel so it's continuously passing the same fuel over and over. Only thing is when you fill up the first bit of driving won't get the multiple passes.



That's a big difference between your single one-pass fuel filter mods and a FASS/AD system and why they use a multipass filter.

That is also the reason they have a dedicated fuel/water separator...

Not all of your fuel is filtered multiple times... Fuel filters are single pass rated by design, why use a filter that isn't? Only the FASS final is multi-pass, AD's are all single-pass, just like your OEM system and your OEM system bypasses fuel to the tank as well.



The f/w seps are jokes, who cares if they are dedicated, have you seen their ratings?

 

[Yo Hoot]

I haven't seen the ratings for the FASS water seperator. Who makes it and what are the ratings?

#ad

 

[AH64ID]

Its a Fleetguard FS1023. It has not been tested nor rated for f/w separation. It's a 100 micron screen according to FASS, but it wasn't tested for that by Fleetguard either. There are also not any applications for it at this time, seems that FASS sales are all thats keeping it alive.

Fortunatly the FASS uses a standard thread size, so a filter that actually has ratings and meets OE spec can be used.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Strange. It does have the drain on the bottom.


Donaldson crosses one. .
P550828 FFWS Spin On
Overall Dimensions:
Outer Dia. : 3. 66" (93mm)
Length: 6. 11" (155mm)
Thread Size: 1-14"
Primary Application:
Cummins Engines
Replaces:
Cimtek 70804; Fleetguard FS1023

 

[AH64ID]

Strange. It does have the drain on the bottom.





Donaldson crosses one. .

P550828 FFWS Spin On

Overall Dimensions:

Outer Dia. : 3. 66" (93mm)

Length: 6. 11" (155mm)

Thread Size: 1-14"

Primary Application:

Cummins Engines

Replaces:

Cimtek 70804; Fleetguard FS1023

It is a f/w sep, but how much is separates is unknown.



Fleetguard showed no current engines that use the filter when I called, doesn't mean there aren't any. . just what I was told by Fleetguard.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Just got some (little) info from Cummins. Trying to get more.



The FS1023 specs are as follows,



100 micron mesh wire screen

Flow rate of 155 GPH

 

[AH64ID]

Just got some (little) info from Cummins. Trying to get more.



The FS1023 specs are as follows,



100 micron mesh wire screen

Flow rate of 155 GPH

I was just going back thru my emails from Cummins and found the 100um rating, and I was told flow rate varied based on viscosity... But nothing on separation, the lady I have dealt with for a couple of years tried to get me the info from an engineer but never was able to.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Get aload of this...

I just got another response from Cummins Filtration...

"The wire mesh has no water stripping ability. The drain is on this type of filter in cases for when the filter is sitting overnight and the water in the fuel seperates to the bottom. This allows the water to be drained off of the unit. "

It's just a prefilter. It's not a water seperator.

 

[AH64ID]

Get aload of this...

I just got another response from Cummins Filtration...

"The wire mesh has no water stripping ability. The drain is on this type of filter in cases for when the filter is sitting overnight and the water in the fuel seperates to the bottom. This allows the water to be drained off of the unit. "

It's just a prefilter. It's not a water seperator.

Much better info than I have been able to get... Thank you!

I did get a very similar response from Donaldson last night, and was waiting on a clarification email. . but this sums it up!

EDIT: I was able to get the same info!

If I owned a FASS with a FS1023 on it I would be ordering a real f/w sep right now!

 

[Yo Hoot]

This was my conversation.





Fleetmaster:

The FS1023 does not have a listed percentage for water removal. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.



ME:

I am confused. Do you have another filter of similar design (stainless steel screen) that has specs for me to get an idea?



Fleetmaster:

The wire mesh has no water stripping ability. The drain is on this type of filter in cases for when the filter is sitting overnight and the water in the fuel seperates to the bottom. This allows the water to be drained off of the unit.



ME:

So this filter is a 100 micron prefilter and is not designed to remove water?



Fleetmaster:

That is correct. It is basically there to catch the large particles that would quickly plug a much tighter secondary filter. This can have water drained from it but is not designed to remove water.



I called FASS and talked to a technician. They are looking at it now.

 

[AH64ID]

I called FASS and talked to a technician. They are looking at it now.

Same thing AD said over a year ago when I posted the specs of their f/w sep filter... Still no new filters. .

 

[BrianJ]

As a FASS user I am interested to see how this pans out. Has anyone come accross a part number for a true water seperator for the FASS?

 

[AH64ID]

As a FASS user I am interested to see how this pans out. Has anyone come accross a part number for a true water seperator for the FASS?

Its a common thread size, screw a Baldwin BF1212 on there and call it good. At least FASS used a common thread, AD uses an odd-ball that doesn't have a replacement that will get you to stock levels, the Luberfiner LFF9495 is the closest you can get.

 

[TCDiesel]

Much better info than I have been able to get... Thank you!



I did get a very similar response from Donaldson last night, and was waiting on a clarification email. . but this sums it up!



EDIT: I was able to get the same info!



If I owned a FASS with a FS1023 on it I would be ordering a real f/w sep right now!

AH64. . Now You see Why when I challenged Them on filtrations they NEVER accept it. BUY FASS/Airdog for performance,they are worthless in the filtration. Just think of the $$$$$ they made off those $3. 00 filters.

 

[AH64ID]

AH64. . Now You see Why when I challenged Them on filtrations they NEVER accept it. BUY FASS/Airdog for performance,they are worthless in the filtration. Just think of the $$$$$ they made off those $3. 00 filters.

Yep its pretty sad since they have most the diesel world believing they are the end-all be all of filtration and pumping. .

 

[Yo Hoot]

We need to start a FASS/AD challenge thread to get them to answer up on this. FASS is calling that screen can a water separator but it's not. They won't provide performance specs on it. That is pretty outrageous, I agree, considering they are pushing this product for how great it is but don't provide the specs.

Makes me wonder what the methodology was in their backroom discussions when they chose this so called filter.

 

[TCDiesel]

I know of 3 complete injection system replacements (Dodge) and (1 D-Max) Directly related to the Fass filtration failure. I cannot believe that they were NOT aware of the inadequate filters they are NOW selling. If Fass and Airdog want to sell on Performance Platform that's fine,But they should remove all the marketing on filtration,It's tantamount to deception.



Here's a Quote form Fass site.



Benefits of FASS Fuel Pumps

FASS Fuel PumpsRemoves AIR / Vapor from Your Fuel

FASS Fuel Pumps Consistent Flow of Fuel

FASS Fuel Pumps are Reliable High Volume Pumps

FASS Fuel Pumps Increase Horse Power

FASS Fuel Pumps Increase Torque

FASS Fuel Pumps Increase Fuel Economy

FASS Fuel Pumps Reduces Carbon Monoxide & Carbon Dioxide

FASS Fuel Pumps have a 6 Year Warranty on Most Applications

FASS Fuel Pumps have a 13,000 - 15,000 Hour Life Expectancy

FASS Fuel Pumps equates to 500,000 Plus Miles

FASS Fuel Pumps have Up to 200 GPH

FASS Fuel Pumps offer 160 Maximum PSI

FASS Fuel Pumps Motor Has Up to 406 OZ Inches of Stall Torque

FASS Fuel Pumps have Interchangeable Filters

FASS Fuel Pumps Increase The Life Of Your Entire Fuel injection System



They have an entire Page on The Damaging Effects of Air in Fuel But not Much on damage form Water or contamination. My experience with CR is Water by far is more damaging then any type of Air contamination.

 

[AH64ID]

I think water is much more damaging to any engine. . Otherwise wouldn't we have factory air seps?

I am not sure how you can increase the life of a fuel injection system by less effective filtration than stock?

 

[Kday]

What about the FF5613 and FS19768 that I am using on my Airdog 150. Thought/think they were good filters, will do some research.

 

[AH64ID]

What about the FF5613 and FS19768 that I am using on my Airdog 150. Thought/think they were good filters, will do some research.

The FF5613 isn't bad, but its not a true 2um filter like many want you to believe. Its a 5um absolute filter, with a 94% rating at 2um. . so its good.

The FS19768 sucks, its 50% free and 0% emulsified water separation at a whopping 20gph. It needs to be replaced, there a couple of options. . none of which are as good as stock. FS19594 is rated for 90% free/emulsified sep but still at 90GPH. The Luberfiner LFF9594 is rated for 95% free 75% emulsified at 90GPH, so its your best bet, and is now the filter AD uses on all their pumps.

Since the f/w sep is pre-pump most of your water removal is free, but the continual return of fuel to the tank will create some emulsified water.

For reference stock is 98% free and 95% emulsified.