Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) No acceleration on first start

[CYauch]

Over the past few days, when the truck sits for a few hours, acceleration is flat until it runs for a few minutes. No matter how much I mash the pedal, RPM's seems to climb to around 1700 and stay. After running for a few, normal acceleration returns and the truck is fine. Again, this only happens after sitting for a few hours. While running, there is no problem. My truck is an '01 Quad Cab 2500 w/ 60,500 miles.



On a side note, and not sure if related, last week, the driver side electric door lock would not work. After flipping the switch to lock/unlock several times, normal operation returned. In addition, after messing with the door lock, I attempted to start the truck, and NOTHING. Key went all the way over, lights came on, but when starter should turn ove, nothing. I messed with the gear shift, turned the steering wheel, then turned key again. Truck started, so I am not sure exactly what the problem there was.



Could all this be an electrical problem geting ready to show its complete ugly head? Any other adivce is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[PaulG]

well i think the non-start problem was just a 1 time deal since it hasn't happened since



now since when it sits and then is fine after you drive abit i have to ask you when was the last time you changed your fuel filter? if it's really dirty sometimes it will get all gooped up from sitting untill the fuel flows a bit and then works a path thru the filter.



THat would be my first place to start cause

a: it's cheap

b: couldn't hurt to change it anyhow specially if it's never been done.



i'd bet it's that let us know what you come up with

 

[CYauch]

Currently, the truck as 60,484 miles. I just called the local dealer where I have regualr maintenance done on the truck. Last FF change was done at 50,584 miles, December 9, 2003. that puts about 17 tanks of fuel during that time. I usually get the filter changed on every third oil change. Is 8 months along time to go without changing the fuel filter? And, would maybe an airflow or other sensor also cause this problem? Oil change is scheduled for tomorrow anyway, and will have them change the fuel filter. Anything else I should be looking at? Thanks.

 

[PaulG]

not sure what else it could be check to make sure the water seperator isn't full. i've seen it where the light never comes on but i'd have to bet against it to be honest. I'd put a can of diesel fuel cleaner in it and see if that helps

 

[AKAMAC]

What is your fuel pressure?

 

[CYauch]

I have no idea what the fuel pressure is. Havn't bought a gauge for it. I did have the fuel filter changed today when the oil change was done. Still have the same problem. However, with the service manager present when I started the truck and reved the engine, he said it looks like there may be a problem with the 'transfer pump'. This sound correct? I do know that I almost went a 10th of a mile before I was able to accelrate normally; almost took the truck back and left it. Problem is that his diesel mechanic is off this week. I guess I can drive it as is, its still under warranty. Guess I can hope that whatever the problem is will break for good by Monday of next week.



What exactly is a transfer pump, where is it located, and is there anything that I can do to test this and know for sure that this is it? I heard someone who owns a Ford (ouch!) say it might even an injector pump, but not likely since the truck idles smooth, and the problem goes away after a few minutes of running, and not thru the entire throttle range on a consistent basis.

 

[master1578]

Hello all,

Just joined the club in more ways than one (ie: new lift pump and Injector pump) @ 70k. This looks as good a place as any to get my feet wet. I had the same problem although mine was intermittent. Took awhile to get up and go. Cruised at highway speed no problem. You can see above what my problem was. I'm nowhere near as knowledgable as some on this site, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... ... ...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Could be the turbo bearings are bad, or some other factor is not allowing boost to occur until the turbo is getting good oil flow and a bit of heat...



You *do* have guages, including turbo boost, RIGHT?



(yes, I already know the answer to that question - but adding proper guages is the FIRST step in owner-troubleshooting exercises - lots easier than playing guessing games at a distance!)

 

[CYauch]

I must admit that his truck is not my primary vehicle, and because of that, have not bought any guages for it. I have an '80 Ram 1-Ton with a slant 6 as my main work vehicle, but since its now DOA and desperately needs an engine rebuild, I have been driving the '01 2500 more now. (Hence the low miles) Please forgive me for asking all the questions, and I know that it is hard to troubleshoot a problem from a distance However, I do appreciate the information; I'm learning quite a bit about diesels from the site/forums/book.



Concerning the acceleration problem and the turbo, with their be a difference in the way the engine sounds? By that I mean, when first started, I rev the throttle. When it reaches about 1300-1500 RPM's, the engine doesn't make the normal 'rattle' sound, but rather sounds like a normal gas engine; its quite. There is what sounds like the turbo 'swooshing', but the truck studders a little, and white smoke comes out the back. But again, after a few minutes of running, normal engine rattle comes back at 1300 rpm's when reved.



Concerning the gauges, wife was sitting here while I was reading your e-mail. Can you recommend a set of gauges (manufacturer) that are both reasonably priced and reliable? And asside from EGT guages, what other guages should I consider buying? Should I also look at getting gauges that can measure more than one parameter? Dual Boost/EGT or seperate gauges for each? 1/4 or 1/8 NPT? Since I am not really adding anything high performance in the near future, then I am assuming the boost gauge and EGT gauge that measure 0-35 and 0o-1500o would be fine? What about the reading for a fuel pressure guage, and should I get one pre-pump, and one for post-pump, what PSI? 30, 60, 100? Thanks.

 

[master1578]

I shared those symptoms as well. Somewhere around 1500-1800 RPM, it ran rough, blew white smoke. After a minute or two it cleared up and away I went. I haven't had any of that since I got the new lift pump and injector pump. All is back to normal.







P. S. I don't have the guages yet either Before I came to this site I thought that stuff was for the high performance gear... ... . but I'm learning

 

[CYauch]

Thanks. I talked to a sales person at Geno's yesterday afternoon, and placed an order for a pillar mount, fuel pressure, boost, and egt guage. Had to get approval from the 'admiral' (wife), but after explaining why, was no problem. LOL.



Anyhow, while driving in to work this morning, the Water In Fuel warning light came on, so now I am wondering if thisproblem is related to that now. Fuel filter was changed 2 days ago, and I would have thought that it would have been checked. Course, the last time their diesel mechanic was on vacation, they didn't empty the container that the slobber tube drains into.



Going to empty the water, and see if that cures all problems.

 

[Rsnyder]

Had same problem with my 2001. Stilll doing it. Started at about 50000 miles. Replaced fuel filter and lift pump. 11 pounds fuel pressure before injector pump while blowing white smoke. Now have 147000 miles. Gave up.

 

[Rsnyder]

PS

Forgot to tell you. Turn the key off and on quickly and it will run OK for a little bit. You can get up to speed .

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Hate to simply start tossing money and parts at a problem - but the MAP/MAF (Mass Air Pressure/flow) or IAT (Intake Air Temp) sensors might cause this sort of problem if they are bad or non-functional, and not providing accurate data to the ECM (Engine Control Module)...



These sensors are located immediatey behind the fuel filter on the driver side of the engine - and sorta hard to get to - the plug contacts on each could also be bad/dirty...

 

[CYauch]

Well, the WIF light came on, then later that day went out. Dealer told me that he still thinks its the lift pump (something about when the prime is lost, air takes its place causing condensation; that's what he said anyway).



Still have the initial stumble upon startup and first 5 minutes of driving. Dropped it off at the dealer tonight for them to look at tomorrow. Their diesel tech is back off vacation.

 

[CYauch]

Dealer had truck all week, replaced lift pump. Have to bring it back when i run the tank to near empty, said that there was water in the fuel filter, but think that there's even more in the tank. Dealer said they were going to drop the tank and clean it out. Right now, the WIF light stays on, truck still sluggish on intial start, but runs fine after that. Mileage seems to be off, but i guess that's norm for water in fuel?

 

[benlevi]

I am having the same problem with exception of WIF. Had Lift pump replaced, did not fix the problem. Can you give me an update on what happened. Thanks.



BEN

 

[CYauch]

Got truck back tonight after being at dealer this past week; had to run the fuel damn near empty before they would work on it.



Anyhow, they dropped the tank. Told me there was water from hell in there. Yesterday, we stopped by the dealer and looked at 2 5 gallon buckets that had diesel from the tank. On the bottom of each bucket was a bunch of 'black' garbage. Got a Gatorade bottle from them today when i picked the truck up. There is about a 3/4 inch layer of 'goo' at the bottom of the bottle, and I went to the local truck stop where i get my diesel (live in a small town, and the truck stop moves diesel in and out more than the other local stations that have only one diesel pump), and showed them the bottle, and my $323. 00 bill to have tank/fuel system cleaned. Have to talk to manager in the morning, but don't know if they are gonna pay for it.



Truck seems to run fine now, but will know for sure in the morning after it sits all night.



One small thing tho. Prior to cleaning the tank, I could smell what seemed like burnt oil odor thru the a/c vents when it was in the 2 a/c positions other than max a/c; and only at when stopped or idling. I wrote it off as the garbage that was burring in the fuel and being blown thru the slobber tube. I even thought that it might have been oil spilled when they did the oil change, but i washed the engine, and smell was still there (hence, again, i thought it was the crappy fuel). Now that i have a good tank of fuel, and a clean tank, I still get the oil smell once the engine has warmed up. No visible oil leaks anywhere, and I am still thinking that it was coming from the slobber tube. Oil pressure if ok, and dipstick reading hasn't moved. Any ideas?



Will post tomorrow if the acceleration problem has been solved for good, and a pic of the container showing the water/dirt that came out of tank.





O, and btw, my lift pump was bad too.

 

[CYauch]

Well, same problem. Doesn't seem any worse, but then again, doesn't seem any better. I had to pay the cost of cleaning the tank, and current;y in a battle with Cone Auto/Truck Plaza for the reimbursement. Getting ugly.



Anyhow, dealer is telling me to run a few tanks of diesel with Cetane additive because the injection pump may be all gummed up. Stated that the additive will clean it out. Is this true?



While perusing the forums, I did a number of searches. I did the computer test with the ignition and came up with the following codes (I understand that 1693 can be ignored?):



PCU - 1683



ECO -0230

-0177

-0216



I read what the codes indicate, but could this be because the boneheads at the dealer didn't clear the computer? and if so, is there a way I can clear them to see if they appear again? I am really beginning to think that there is something else wrong than a 'gummed' up injection pump, but feel that the dealer just doesn't want to take the time to figure it out. @ $300. 00+ to clean my tank, I hate to have to go back and pay another large amount of $$$$$$ for them to clean the injection pump and that not being the problem (wife and i are building a house, so funds are tight) Thanks.



On a side note, did finally get my fuel and EGT gauge, waiting on the pillar mount and the boost gauge. Should I wait for all items to come in, or can I 'easily' add the other guage should it arrive after the pillar mount comes in?

 

[benlevi]

Quick Hx on my problem is very similar. Started having the same symptoms after truck sat at the airport for 6 days and a very hard start with white smoke when I returned. Filled up at newly remodeled C-store and had no acceleration the next morning. Checked the computer and got P1693 and P0216 codes. Dealt with the problem for a few weeks and finally got around to changing the fuel filter thinking it might help. After doing the usual bump start to get the fuel moving again, could not start for about an hour of trying. Did not help problem and 4 days later the lift pump finally quit.



Towed to dealer and lift pump was replaced under warranty. On the test drive, the dealer ran out of fuel, then had what they told me was computer problems, but it was 5:30pm and the computer guy just left; no truck for the weekend for me! Monday they said it is all good, come pick it up. The next day..... same problem! Checked codes again and now have the following, P1693, P1689, P0230, P0216. Called the dealer and brought it back. They called and said nothing wrong and that they can't find any codes. What!!??



Needless to say, I am going to a different dealer to have it looked at, however won't take it there for a few weeks.



Anyways, that dealer also told me about additive for the fuel, mentioned something called 'K-12' or 'K-44'; said it was like prescription strength additive @ $25 per bottle. However after my last visit , he had lost a lot of trust and I haven't tried it. I feel the same as you though, I think it is a bigger problem than a 'gummed' up system, and they just didn't want to take the time to find the problem. I am waiting to use additives until I get a better answer then, "we couldn't find anything wrong. " By the way, the 4 codes I mentioned, all came back the very next day!!



As for the gauges, I don't have any either, trying to save money to get them hopefully soon.