2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission No More Car Lots Or Dealers !!!

[Holysmokes]

IVE HAD IT! Ive decided I have no use for a car lot or dealership. The only thing they do is sell vehicles and do service..... right? PUT SOME THOUGHT TO IT! I went down to my local dealer to trade in my 2000 2500 CTD sport QC 4x4 Leather,heated seats etc. with 100K. I was looking at a 2000 CTD same miles same everything but cloth interior,long-bed, and manuel transmission. Did the whole test drive and all... . deal was gong fine untill it came to "trade in". I parked next to "new" truck on purpose to compare trucks when they told me a price. They are asking 28900 on sale for 26900. I know ... OUCH! :--) I figured that was kind of high but Id hear him out on what he came up with on trade in... . 14900. LOL I told him to add for the diesel engine. He said he did! LOL I asked him... . what gives? He said they buy these at the auctions for 14900 "all day long". I told him well then how bout we go auction price to auction price... he said like a smart a** that we are not at an acction and i said then why are you tryn to give me auction price? These auctions are whats hurting us..... they buy these trucks for next to nothing and mark them up so high when you go to trade it in there not worth half? Plus at an auction they have NO CLUE as to what is wrong with truck. They can start it and thats it! It might have a clean Ohio title but what about when it was wrecked in MI? And as for the service aspect... . ANYONE IS CHEAPER AND BETTER QUALTY THEN DEALER SERVICE. but ill let that topic lie. Brothers,members,and fellow RAM FOLK ... . I say no more dealers... Buy the CTD sitting on the side of the road... take time to talk to the old man selling it. . I guarentee HE will give you the history of that truck. . If we did this there wouldnt be $10000 in mark up on a truck... . as a matter of fact if we do this a new CTD might not cost 46K. Oo. Any thoughts?









PS. This is not a slam on mechanics... There are GREAT MECHANICS at dealers. . I just feel there are great mechanics that have small shops that are tryn to build a reputation as great mechanics that dont need your next 4 months salary to be great. :-laf

 

[rrab1]

dealer price

Holysmokes I agree,I bought mine from a chrysler employee and they buy at discount and I found that this was a reasonable way for me to buy almost new at a good price only seven months old, I was happy maybe it would work for you, Don

 

[redram]

Why were you wanting to trade your 2000 CTD Laramie with 100K for a 2000 CTD SLT with 100K on it anyways? I would assume yours is paid for and you know the vehicle has been kept in top notch shape while the other one - well, you're not sure of the history.



Not sure I understand your dilema?



Cheers

 

[CSnyder]

Holy, Are you talking 26900 CAN? If not that is an aweful lot of dough for a 2000. I have a 2000 QC Longbox 5 speed with 154,000 and no leather with mods you can see in my sig that I would sell for 18000 OBO. The only thing it needs is a windshield. Or maybe I would trade? And I promise a better deal that what the other dealer told you... . gosh I may trade even steven if I like it well enough. Another place you may want to check with is www.westsideautosales.net he is a diesel nut himself and gives real good deals

 

[DieselMinded]

HolySmokes,



It dont surprize me at all



They just basically told you they were asking double the $$$ for the new truck from what they got it for... . WHAT A JOKE



Ive tried to deal at our "LOCAL" dealers no luck at all ... no hometown value no matter what the sign says



If you want another truck similar to yours start a truck swap thread ... even up!!!



If you had a '02, QC ,4x4 ,SB ,HO/6speed, Leather, BLACK or RED . I would concider it ... of course some things would come off mine... . and I would want similar mileage.



IT's been done on here before.



DM

 

[MKoth]

I would like to know what auction he is getting a diesel pickup for under $20K. Most of the time, diesels bring $25K+, unless they are very high milage, or more then 5 years old.

 

[CSnyder]

Mkoth, I am an investor with an auto dealer in northeast Iowa and we buy alot of diesels in the twin cities for that 10-20,000 range depending on what year and mileage. Example; bought a 1999 3500 reg cab auto 4x4 with 135k for 10,250 and a 2000 Ford f-250 powerjoke ext cab 4x4 with 110k for 14750 and a 2004 Cheby 3500 crew diesel 4x4 with 68k for 21400. these were all last week. Are you a car dealer?

 

[Holysmokes]

The only reason I was even CONSIDERING trading was the fact that once I put my toolbox in my bed it didnt leave a whole lot of room and I preffer a 5 or 6 speed in a truck. (in case im hauling a load of firewood) I was pretty much venting . The fact still remains... . If someone wanted to upgrade their truck... It would be awful tough to do anymore... well for me at least. I figure,lets say I owe an even 20K and there going to give 14K Im 6K in the hole... . now add the 27K for the "upgraded truck" now im up to 33K throw tax and all the other fees Im up to 35K... . for a 2000 truck mind you. Being its 5 years "they could get me 48 months". LETS SEE>>>>that comes out tooooo... . $838. 00 per month. LOL.

 

[Hohn]

I paid 31. 8K USD for mine-- BRAND NEW in 2002. Diesel's seem to hold their value a hair better.



But, it appears the dealers view diesel pickups as some kind of cash cow- as if they can't settle for less than $5K or more of PURE PROFIT on each vehicle!



Only after shopping around for used CTDs and seeing how ridiculous the dealers were with pricing (and the fact they wouldn't deal at all), I decided that I might as well buy new. Especially because with a vehicle of this durability, I'd expect to have it a while,and *I'd* like to be the one that takes care of it from new.



My truck (as seen in sig) is Flame Red, QC shortie 6-speed 4wd. With less than 36K(read: still under warrantee) on it, I've had dealers tell me it's only worth 13K trade-in! 13K!! I just laughed. I was fed the same line about getting them for that at auctions all day.



I confronted them with the fact that they were asking 13K for a 98 QC 12V 5speed with 168K on it. (it sold less than a week later).



Now, i'd say the '98 was worth the price-- it was after all, the Holy Grail of CTDs, right? But I couldn't see how MINE was also worth the same amount on trade-in!



Now, let me say for the record that I think the a dealer deserves to make an honest buck to stay in business. Who's going to be around to give you warrantee service if they can't pay the bills?



But the dealers have made BIG money and are no longer happy to make enough to stay around and give you good service. They need to have a never-ending gravy train to be happy.



Not all dealers are like this. Many are content to get rich in 20 years, not 20 minutes. Unfortunately, they seem to be a small and disappearing minority.



Who's to blame for this?? WE ARE!!!



That's right. If it weren't for the fact that so many people were all too eager to bend over and willingly give up their financial future for new car smell, then it wouldn't be so bad. PEOPLE ARE FINANCING H2s FOR 10 YEARS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! That's right, let's buy a $60K SUV that you can't afford, and pay over $85K total for it (over 10 yrs)--- all for something that will be worth maybe $10K when paid for.



In essence, we have conditioned the dealers into expecting HUGE profits because we simply hand over the money! They don't really value any SINGLE customer, because there's always a bigger sucker walking in the door. They don't need to sell to YOU because someone else will come on in and eagerly drop trou.



It's the old adage: Something is worth whatever someone will pay for it!



Rant off.



Justin

 

[Holysmokes]

I agree Hohn, with pretty much everything you said. Dealers need to make a couple of bucks to keep the lights on and food on the table. Used to be they needed to make $1500 to $2500 per unit. I understand that. They have bills too. However, are you aware they make money off the loan itself too? Aside from that 10K mark up?

I had a conversation with my bank that my loan is through (i was miffed) because the dealer told me that the best intrest rate I could get was 8%. My loan now is 6%. After a long conversation, I found that I was still approved at 6% . (same lender)That 2% of the loan (the difference in 6% and 8%) is called a "dealer reserve" Wanna guess who gets that cash? Extended warrantys too... huge cash cow for big time dealerships (and a whole lot of small ones too)

 

[MKoth]

Mkoth, I am an investor with an auto dealer in northeast Iowa and we buy alot of diesels in the twin cities for that 10-20,000 range depending on what year and mileage. Example; bought a 1999 3500 reg cab auto 4x4 with 135k for 10,250 and a 2000 Ford f-250 powerjoke ext cab 4x4 with 110k for 14750 and a 2004 Cheby 3500 crew diesel 4x4 with 68k for 21400. these were all last week. Are you a car dealer?

Not officially a dealer, my business partner has a dealers license, and I buy things through thim occasionaly. There were a dozen 04 Dodge 2500 4x4 CTD with anything from 6K to 20K miles on them, cheapest one went for $29K, most expensive was around $33K, seems kinda high to me. But there are good deals sometimes, 01 Chevy 3500 D/A 4x4 with 90,xxx miles for $19,000, Ford F-350 PS 4x4 for about the same price, but those are about the best deals I have seen down here.

 

[Tony T.]

80% of the customers that enter a dealership are interested in what the monthly payment will be not the total cost.



Us other 20% are considered trouble makers when you want to deal fairly.



Tony

 

[mechanic]

It dose me good to read all these posts. I have been saying all these things to my customers for several years. The "dirty little secrets" that the dealers don't want you to know. That dealer reserve is an old secret. I bought a new GTO back in 1968 and it was going on then. (Sold it in 3 months, poorest excuse for an automobile I had owned to that point. Also my last new car)

Also just a caution, I have seen several small secondary dealers in this area that will send vehicles home with their employees/managers on evenings and weekends, and advertise them as their personal vehicles. This is very common here. We have a lot of "non-american owned" car lots, while they are not the only ones to do this, they do the majority of this activity.

I usually go to a dealership that I "trust" and look at their "back lot" merchandise. Some of them will not work with me on those vehicles, but some will. I have found two very large multi-line dealerships in the Edmond Ok. area that are generally good to deal with. When you are looking at the merchandise that is going to go to auction or the "note tote" lot, you can make a better deal.

I bought a 97 GMC Jimmy with everything from sunroof to all wheel drive also leather, in very clean condition, for $5500. It had an NADA of $9300. at the time. While not a steal, it was a very good deal.

Knowing how much you are willing to pay when you go in, and being willing to walk away from a deal are very important factors in making a good deal, either at a dealer or a private party sale. Also having cash makes a difference.

 

[MMeier]

I would like to know what auction he is getting a diesel pickup for under $20K. Most of the time, diesels bring $25K+, unless they are very high milage, or more then 5 years old.

MK, and anyone else. Thats why they have dealer auctions, where only licensed dealers can buy. We have a huge auction yard here and the vehicles come in from allover the country, no idea what may be wrong with them. Have somethjing on the lot not selling, take it to auction and let some other sucker buy it and then turn around and sell it somewhere else. When i buy a used vehicle i always buy from a private individual, a while back I went to some GSA auctions where you pick up some cheapies and then turn them for $$$. Worked good for a couple of years til thier prices went out of site. I'm currently looking for a 1 st gen truck ( 92 or 93 W250 CC) and a turbo Buick that will be bought privately!

 

[hammersley]

Cra prices are dependent of where you live for a very good reason....

WINTER SALT! ! I grew up in salt country (NC Penn) and no very well that a car 10 years old was well on it's way to the boneyard... . You could fix all the mechanical things you wanted - but there was nothing to hang it to. I'm still amazed at how new really old cars look out here - I mean 30-40 year old cars with essentially no rust at all! So older used vehicles here are worth a lot more $$$$.

 

[rbattelle]

80% of the customers that enter a dealership are interested in what the monthly payment will be not the total cost.



Us other 20% are considered trouble makers when you want to deal fairly.

I agree with Tony and with everything Hohn said. The continued popularity of SUVs and trucks despite increasing fuel costs is a clear indicator that many people purchase based almost entirely on "image" rather than utility or practicality. And that's fine... whatever floats your boat.



I think Ford Escapes are an interesting case study. I would say that roughly 85% of the Escapes I see on the road are 2wd (it's particularly easy to spot a 2wd Escape). So I ask myself, "what is a 2wd Escape's reason for being... what is it that it does better than any other vehicle that justifies its existance and purchase?" Time and again I come back to the notion that "it's cheap and looks like an SUV".



I think dealers mistakenly apply this "image" mentality to our big diesel trucks. Problem is, I think there are fewer people making "image" purchases out of Dodge Ram diesels (I think maybe Ford diesel owners do it all the time, but not so much Dodge and GM diesel owners). But the dealers go by what they know, so they think people are buying a Dodge diesel for "image" rather than utility, so they'll pay anything to get it. People like us get frustrated when we're gouged like this for a vehicle we actually want because it's useful to us.



[This is a good discussion... I should visit the 2nd gen forums more often! ]



-Ryan

 

[AndrewGray]

I know how you feel . I wanted to trade my '97 5 speed with 120,000 and all the dealers would give was 4000. I told them to stick it you know where yes i used those terms. It would be the next day they would call me ..... oh we will do better on the truck you are lookin at but no way would they come up on mine!! I spotted a 2000 ford f-350 PS 4x4 extended shortie with 87,000 on one dodge dealership lot. I knew the shop foreman there so i asked him about it. He said they bought it at auction in Minneapolis and gave 17,300 for it... he showed me the papers ... . sneaky lol... they were asking 25,000 for it last september..... they still have it and now its at 15,500. No one is touching it cause they have no history to it and it looks to "clean" if ya know what i mean. Boy!! some dealers!! This dealer that offered 4000 for mine is the same dealer i have bought cars and trucks from many times. Made the deal and plopped down cash ... . always a good deal but with the ctd they jerked me hard ... i wont be goin back.

 

[MAX A/C]

I figure,lets say I owe an even 20K and there going to give 14K Im 6K in the hole... . now add the 27K for the "upgraded truck" now im up to 33K throw tax and all the other fees Im up to 35K... . for a 2000 truck mind you. Being its 5 years "they could get me 48 months". LETS SEE>>>>that comes out tooooo... . $838. 00 per month. LOL.

Can I have the 14K (that they would give for your truck) you just forgot about? :-laf



I know what you mean--they want to make a fortune on every deal. And whatever you are looking to buy from them is "rare" or "hard to find" while whatever you are trading in "the market is soft on those" or "we had a hard time selling another one like this"!

 

[bnbrown]

Have a friend that just bought a brand new CTD, 2 wd 3500 SRW auto, everything but leather... they only gave her 12K for her trade in (2001 CTD QC auto 2wd everything but leather, 118K)... told her i would have bought it for her for more than that... but she actually had to walk out of the dealer, get in her 01 and start to drive off before the dealer came running out and stopped her agreeing to her price she would pay for the new CTD...

I also have bought 3 CTD QC trucks on eBay, all auction trucks. the dealer selling it is very important, I bought two from dealers in D/FW texas ('99 in sig, had 92K on it, the '01 in my sig w/ 87K) and one from a dealer near houston ('02 2500 QC NV4500 flame red, pretty clean w/ 96K) - each of these three trucks I got for under $16K... . the last one has had a couple mechanical issues, but some will be covered under warranty. an honest dealer isn't a mytholigical being, but close... I have called the two D/FW dealers since to find me other vehicles since they served me well before, and were happy to help, but my friend got impatient and bought the one in Houston, but it will be a good truck.

I have bought trucks in the past from individuals, and you can get a lot more history on them, I bought mine on eBay because I couldnt find what i wanted for what i wanted to pay. Just make it a vaccation, fly in, pick up the truck and take a nice time to get to know the new family member on the way home, most of these dealers will work with you if there is a problem, I picked up my 99 and the dealer couldnt find the faceplate for the CD player, so he bought me a new comperable unit. I was looking at the same truck (year make model miles etc. ) as my 99 at the same time i bought mine for under $16K, at a local dealer they wanted $25K for essentially the same truck and theirs didnt come with a vaccation...

 

[RDelissen]

most dealerships (and car sales men/women) know jacksh!t about diesels, so that's where you don't get nothing for your trade in diesel, BUT they'll mark up the diesels they sell (like stated in numerous posts above)

Guess that's something we gotta live with and that's why we have to be patient to find a deal ... whether it's on a new rig or a used one

:-laf