NO Oil Pressure - I think she's ruint

[lbrown]

Bad thing happened to me. Had just filled with fuel, gotten something to eat and noticed as I was going to Post Office that oil light was on and pressure gauge showed nothing, zip, zero, zilch. Stopped truck and looked at oil dipstick. Had normal oil level. Figured it was just a bad sending unit. Drove 3 miles when she quit with a metalic squeal. Could see nothing wrong so after 15 minutes started it and tried it again. Went 0. 1 mile and she quit with a metalic squeal again. Towed to my garage, pulled turbo oil line and cranked it (with fuel shut off/on wire off) and no oil came out. I think I ruined the engine and turbo. Only had 135000 miles on it and just 2500 on the latest oil change. Using micro-glass filters.



Questions:

1. Has anyone had this happen to them? If so what was the problem?



2. What is the probability that I did not toast the motor?



3. How much for a new/rebuilt motor and turbo. Do they have them?



4. Can the pan be pulled without pulling the motor? Its a 4WD 2500.

 

[C. Harlan]

When I had my '91, I had a similar problem, though it never quit on me. . when my motor would get hot, as soon as you came down to, or close to idling RPM's, oil pressure would drop like a prom dress! As soon as you bumped the idle up a little bit, everything was ok. I never had anything come to a squealing halt on mine though, so I dont know what to say there man. . Best of luck to you though!



-Chris-

 

[formula]

Couple of ideas here:

Sounds a bit strange that you'd be able to crank over the engine so easily and so soon if it was siezed up due to no oil. How long did you crank it when testing for oil from the turbo supply line? Did the engine stop really quick like you shut the key off or did it loose power and gradually grind to a stop? I wonder if you got a huge load of water in your fuel and just happened to have a bad oil pressure sender at the same time. Try the fuel filter drain and see what comes out. On the downside, maybe the oil pump drive decided to break, don't know how common this one would be though.



Sean

 

[lbrown]

Formula:



I probably cranked about 5 seconds. Usually one would think some oil would start coming out immediately. When I broke the flange the pipe was dry.



I thought about the fuel but never did get a water in fuel light. Unfortunately right now I am about 400 miles away from being able to do anything with it and never did see what the fuel looked like.



It was more gradual than abrupt but it started to lose power and about a second later stopped (I had the clutch in). Never did get any overheating indication on the temp gauge.

 

[bmoeller]

I had the exact same thing happen on J. D. 4020. Had no oil pressure and the oil press. light didn't come on because light wasn't working. The starter tried but couldn't turn it very far and stopped. Dropped the oil pan and had a whole lot of fillings in the pan so I pulled a main bearing cap and the bearing was toast. Wound up putting in new motor. :{



If you can, pull your oil drain plug and see if any filings or larger bits of metal come out. If the oil is clean, I'm not sure what might be going on with the motor itself. If your oil press. gauge quit at the same time, and you do have pressure, it may be possible that you need a new fuel filter. This fall the combine died on me because of dirty filters. It was O. K. if it didn't need as much fuel when it didn't need to work very hard, but as soon as the going got tough it quit a coulpe of times. With new filters it fine.



LOL.

 

[DieselBuzz]

Pan Pan

You can take the pan off the engine but you can not take it out. I believe I was a KDP victim. When it happened I tried to pull the pan to see. I really could not get it even kitty cornered to look. IMHO it is not worth the time and effort. I can still remember that sinking feeling.

I hope it is something simple. Good luck.

Art

 

[lbrown]

Got this from Rocky Mountain Cummins. Has anyone had the oil pump gear get loose on the shaft? Thought I would share this since it kind of gives one a good sequence of what to think about if they have some of the same symptoms.



From Rocky Mountain Cummins



It sounds like you had a complete loss of oil pressure which resulted in a loss of lubrication to the crankshaft and connecting rod bearings. I am assuming that the metallic sound you heard was the bearings starting to sieze to the crankshaft and that is what caused the engine to stop running. When it cooled down, you were able to restart or turn the engine over.



Don't know what caused the sudden loss of oil pressure, but my guess is that it is lube oil pump related. The lube oil pump is gear driven and the gear may have spun on it's shaft. Hard to tell until you disassemble the engine and look at the pieces.



As far as damage to the engine, my guess is that the crankshaft journals are burned from the bearings starting to sieze to them, so we are looking at removal of the engine, possible complete disassembly if metal has gone thru the engine, crankshaft line bore of the block, replacement of the crankshaft, lube pump, main and rod bearings, plus any other bushings or bearings in the engine that are oil lubricated, as well as the turbocharger.



To confirm the condition of the engine, you need to have the oil pan removed and the bottom end inspected. You may be able to see bearing damage without removing any bearing caps.

You could also take a look inside the oil filter by cutting open the filter and looking for metal particles in the filter paper. Use Caution if you cut open the filter as there may be a spring underneath the paper cartridge and you want to be sure your face is away from the element when you open it. If you see a lot of metal particles, that's a good indication of bearing damage.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HOW could there be any metal shavings in the oil filter IF the oil pump quit, and wasn't circulating any oil... ?

 

[Joe G.]

How about shavings from the pump tearing up when it failed? It may not have failed from just the driver failing. It may have torn up inside.

 

[lbrown]

Thought I woul post a little on my continuing saga.



Got a reply on the cost of a rebuilt motor. It will be around $5320 plus a core charge of $2340. Good core is one with no visible damage to it. Shipping to Billings would be 250. 00 dollars. And since this is Cummins Rocky Mountain and I am a booster club member I would get 10% off.



But I think before changing an engine I will get back there with a new sending unit, a fuel and oil filter. Change all that and crank it for three or four minutes and see if the oil pressure comes up. My hope is it is a bad sending unit and a simple fuel problem like water or something.



If the engine is bad I may have to get a new truck.

 

[nascar mark]

I might have a deal for you. I'm building a P-pump engine and will be selling my proven 93- 308. 2 hp/ 706 ftlb engine. Word has it I should sell it delivered for $3,000. 00 It has less than 115,000 miles with synthetic oil in since breakin.

 

[lbrown]

Nascar Mark:



That is an interesting offer but due to work and other considerations I probably won't be working on the truck until next summer. So if someone else wants to buy it go ahead and sell it to them.



Once I figure out for sure my engine is trash, I amy get in contact with you.

 

[lbrown]

The rest of the story! Finally got time off and parts and went up and worked on the beast. No shavings in the oil other than 1 small thin piece of babbitt. Oil sender was changed and that didn't help. Oil filter looked clean. Fuel in filter was good.



Removed front cover (easier job than I thought it would be) and immediately saw problem. The gear shaft that drives the gerotor (shaft lube pump ) had bent over far enough to take the drive gear (gear. lube pump drive) out of engagement with the idler gear. Replaced the oil pump, put everything back together and had oil pressure. Started it up but think I hear a knocking that wasn't there before. Hard to tell since she knocks anyway. KDP was in place and did not look like it had moved at all.



Just don't trust it anymore. Had to come back before I had got enough courage to take it on a longish drive. Have about the same amount of oil pressure as when she was new. But I still think I probably wore 100,000 miles out of her when I drove it the 4 miles without oil.

 

[Philip]

Started it up but think I hear a knocking that wasn't there before.

You are probably right. Do not drive it till it dies. That will just cost more to repair the damage already done. A long time ago when Dodge first started using the Cummins engines in the trucks. I had a long talk with a Cummins rep about these engines. The crankshaft has enough meat built in for it to be turned 4 times. So pull her done and have it turned before it tears itself rest of the apart.



I am sorry to hear about the problem.

 

[DPKetchum]

Not to sound back yardish but i have seen crank cleaned in block with embry paper and remove the minor bearing matierial stuck to it and new bearings installed and fired up driven another 50k and sold running ok. years ago I did this on several 396 chevys that folks ran low on oil. Cranks at first glance looked kinda bad and after a little lite grinding paper all bearing matierial was removed. . Rolled in new main and rod bearing sound like new. Did this in a Datsun dealer with a no warranty clause and customers were thrilled their knock was gone. Those had badly worn rod bearings. Puled pans only. Just a thoughtOo.

 

[nascar mark]

You will have too pull engine to remove pan as you can't just pull pan. Its been tried before. Also remember our cranks weigh about 2 times what a big block crank weighs.



mark

PDR - Black Sheep Racing

 

[RGT]

was this caused by KDP falling down in the gear train?, did you check the pin when you had it apart?

 

[lbrown]

KDP was in its proper place. Did not look like it had even moved. As far as the cause I could not tell. Speculation is that the casting was defective and allowed the shaft to pound itself to the new position. One of those one in a million type things since no one here has responded that they have ever seen anything similar.

 

[DPKetchum]

Had a 96 dually with a tool body that a pluming company owned get towed in with a rod broke and parts had exited motor. Had 96,000 miles. I did'nt handle the repair but everyone in shop was curious to what had hapened. It went warranty. On removal and installion on new engine Tech said he found the problem. All i overheard was the oil pump had failed at highway speeds. Commented something in pump drive had broken. Commented that new engine a certain part of pump drive not included and when he went to use that part from old engine part of what he needed was involed in the failure.