No Power trying to pull out a stuck Ford

[Ben Rumson]

I backed off the highway into 1. 5 feet of loose snow yesterday to pull out a Ford truck that had gotten stuck about 40 yards off the road. Real loose, sloppy DRY snow (sub zero at night).



My chance to make him eat dirt right? WRONG.



We hooked up, I put her in 4x4 high and took a tug on the chain. Neither of us moved an inch. I then put it in 4x4 Low. Same thing. Getting a very small running tug on the chain got us moved about 5 feet at best and that's as for as we got. I Hung out the window to watch my front tires and they were NOT spinning circles like my rear tires. I DID feel the 4x4 engage and do it's thing when I backed off the highway, but under heavy pedal they did not grab as agressively as I thought they should - in either 4x4 high or low. His partner even asked me if my truck was 4 wheel drive... I ate crow!



What happened?



I really don't think the 4x4 was the problem. With just me pulling the weight of my truck, it seemed to work fine. I'm thinking that when we were hooked together we may have been beyond the capability of my trucks dead stop pulling capacity... ?? In giving it alot of pedal without much/any forward movement was my wastegate opening up and not allowing the power I needed? I was very dissappointed.



If this is the case, what can/should be done to help this?

Did my having an Automatic have anything to do with this?



Please note that I have NOT yet installed the DD 3's, 4" exhaust, or the 191 Delivery Valves yet - they are due to arrive this Friday (yeah!)



How can I make my truck better for the next time I get in this situation?



- Humble Pie Eater

 

[bighammer]

Don't feel bad. You weren't the one stuck 40 yards off the road



If I can't reach from (on) the road they need to call somebody else or get more chain.

 

[Cooker]

The other front tire may haven been spinning. Both won't spin at the same time.

 

[Ben Rumson]

Tires spinning?

I hear ya about the longer chain and staying on the road. Somrthing my dad would have thought of, but my wisdom hasn't been tempered with enough experience yet. I was too excited to make a point. I'm lucky I got out.





Is this where Posi-Traction comes into play - keeps both tires spinning no matter what?



Or could I have also been maxing-out my available power IE past the hump on the torque curve? I was unable to view the other front tire. But atleast one of them should have been turning - right?

 

[jimk]

transfer case

I think that the transfer case may be the problem. In some transfer cases you can have just one tire off the ground and the truck will not move. In some designs the transfer case has a lock that will enable you to lock the frount to the rear. I have done this when i lost a rear drive shaft and locked the transfer case and drove the truck home.

 

[LSMITH]

Our trucks will drive with the rear driveline removed, the transfer case is not the problem. If your rears were spinning one of the fronts was as well if it was in 4wd and one axle is not broken. In 4 Low you should be able to spin 3 tires on dry pavement if what you tied to does not move, I know I can. A locker in the front will help a ton, but is costly.



I would say that the only problem you had is traction, get the wheels on pavement and try it. The other point is that if he was really stuck you will not pull him out no matter what, the traction cannot be had. Lock the brakes down hard and pull with a winch is the only way to get a badly stuck vehicle out in my experience.

 

[DRR-24V]

Getting Unstuck !

Am not sure it will work on Dodges, but with all my Chevy 4x4s if you give it power and apply the brakes a little it will make all 4 tires spin.

 

[BHaner]

Add some weight next time!

You would be surprised what you can pull from a stop when you have about 450# in your bed against the tailgate!

I pulled my room mates dorf 350 4x4 diesel out of a 10 foot deep ditch... He did not even have the motor running due to the lack of oil pressure because of the extreme side angle. Just make sure you use a strong chain (transport 5/16 or better) and don't let anyone within about 50 feet when you are pulling. Safety first.



P. S. he still hasn't lived this one down.

 

[Diesel Dan]

The problen as i see it is that you are using a CHAIN. bad idea. the proper setup is a 20,000k min snatch-um strap. it is kinda like a big rubber band (not that much give mind you) but the principal is the same. you start with a apx 3-4 ft slack in the strap then you hit it. by the time the sleck is made up you have 7500 lbs of momentum working for you. after the strap stretches a little bit, the force of the strap pulls itself back togetheryou now have at least 15,000 lbs of pull (dont flame on me as i dont have the exact calculations but you get the principal idea).



Out in the sand one day i came across a 35 ft motorhome burried up to its axles with two fullsize ford 4bys hooked up to it with chains. there tires were spinning and digging big holes but nobody was going anywere but down. took over the situation :-laf :-laf got out of my sickly old 89 CTD 4X4 (200hp 480 ft lbs) attached my strap to one of the fords, pulled him out of the way:-laf the other one was able to get out of the way on his own(lucky for him) but you could immagine that the sand was way chewed up by know. even i was a little unsure about going in there but what the heck i was impressing a decent audience by now :-laf the motorhome driver had a pretty sad look on his face but i said that i should be able to get him out and i do accept donations:-laf used 4lo and granny first gear and about 4-5 ft of slack. nailed it went about 5 ft and the truck just stopped:{ but just for a few seconds and i looked in the rearview mirror and there was that motorhome climbing out of that hole :-laf :-laf :-laf the croud was cheering everybody except the two ford truck drivers that did not want me to beat them i the proceded to drag him to some firmer ground



left a smiling motorhome driver there $ 100 poorer. Even he said that it was much cheaper than a tow truck bill.



so dump those chains and get a strap it is much easier and less dangerous and easier on the equip.



that was one proud CTD moment

I'll stop bragging now and get back to work:-laf



DD

 

[CumminFast]

Down here in GA people will pay you just to let them pull you out. Gotta love the South!

 

[Sled Puller]

My 94 auto would BARELY spin the tires in mud if it had lots of pressure on it.

I believe the auto was not getting the power to the ground.





Gene

 

[forr]

Had a similar problem in the snow last year. I was stuck in two wheel drive and shifted to 4wd while sitting still. Well... to make a long story short, just because the 4wd light is on doesn't always mean the front axle is engaged. I had to 'lurch' around a bit to actually get the front axle engaged.



Yes, unless you've got a locker, the passenger side front axle will be the drive axle.



LOL next time.

 

[PUMPERDUDE]

I'm one of them --RWallace

Went out of my way to pull an oysterlugger (that was sinking)up a boat ramp. Heres the kicker--------no trailer Gotta love 4WD+CTD

 

[JTeague]

Was the 4X light on?

If the 4X light was on the front axle was prolly engaged. If not you should check the vacuum disconect on the front axle. Check it for vacuum and if no vacuum is present, check the vac. switch on top of the transfer case or possible ice in the vacuum lines or a broken line. The vacuum disconect on the axle and the switch on the transfer are both known to fail. The Front end will put power to the tire with the least traction, so either can spin without the other.

 

[Ben Rumson]

Yes, 4x4 Light was on

As for the passinger side front tire, I tried having my 11 yr old son hang out the passinger window (it was -17F below) and look. As it was dark and perhaps he wasn't sure what he was really looking for, he couldn't tell me if that tire was spinning or not. Because of how the truck felt backing off the road, I'm inclined to think that the 4x was engaged - the light was ON.



Sounds like too much to handle from a dead stop and made worse with out any weight in the bed. No traction. I have a hugh piece of scrap iron on the side of my house under 2' of snow that I got for this very purpose. Not doing me any good aat the moment. A winch would be ideal. I use one EXTENSIVELY on my 4x4 Suzuki ATV. It's 10 times better than simply having two quads pulling on each other. Talk about some fun stories... ! I can see the wisdom in LSmith's reply.



My chain is a 25' 5/16 Transport binder - very heavy, but not unbreakable, I'm sure. I remember my dad pulling a friend out of a mud hole in the Wind River's (both were Dorf's). He had us kids stand WAY out of the way in case the chain borke. No progress from a dead stop so he gradually got more and more slack in the chain and made small running starts. Gradual at first, but then the chain snapped like a whip and smashed into the back of our friend's truck. Suddenly Dad's advise to us kids was no longer a nuisence... it was prophetic! The chain shattered the window of his shell and dented the tail gate real good. Yes, Safety First.



I REALLY like Diesel Dan's snatch-um strap method and for his heroic victory over evil. Did I say "evil"?... oops meant to say Ford, I mean Dorf. Wish we all could have been there. I salute you . I gottahave one of these straps!! Makes a lot of sense (running start, enertia, less stress on drive trains, etc. ) and much cheaper than a locker - unless your not pulling anything except yourself and MUST have traction over enertia. The whole idea is to get moving FORWARD - not DOWNWARD.



Thanks for the tip on applying the breaks slightly. I'll have to remember this.



I'm using 265/85 tires and want to go to a slightly narrower tire (235/75) next time. This should improve traction a bit as well.



I think we could all use a break from the serious technical Q&A stuff and have fun sharing "Stuck Stories" with each other. I'll post a Topic. Whether it was us getting stuck or us getting someone else unstuck... how it happened, how we got out, what methods of environmental modification we used or devised, etc. Fun stories we could share with each other - learn a little, brag a little, etc. Sound like fun?



Thanks to all for your help!

- Bruce

 

[JTMcCracken]

Be carefull, a large heavy piece if iron used for weight in the bed can become a deadly missle in the event of a rollover. Lots of people use sand in either large sandbags or more commonly big truck innertubes that have been cut in two, full of sand with both ends tied up. I've even spread some of the sand in my icey tracks to allow enough traction to back out of a bad spot. JTMcC.

 

[Scot]

For winter traction, assuming you are up in the frozen north, just lay a tarp in the bed and dump in water. 8. 33lbs/gallon. When the temp goes up, it goes away.



As for lockers in the front: I did the '67 Jeep CJ5 thing back in highskrool. Friday and Saturday nights were for fourwheeling in the bottomless mud of the third coast. Breaking equipment was more the rule than the exception. Lockers tended to be wonderful as long as you always wanted to go straight. Turning the steering wheel yielded wider straight ruts. I would go with an air locker if I were doing it again. JMHO



I like straps and they should always be the first choice. Cables are the last choice. I can still vividly remember the sight of the broken end of one coming through the right vent window of my '66 Bronco and stopping 24" or so from my face. Kinda reminds me of what it must look like to have a rattlesnake striking at your face.



Another handy thing when making a dead pull: When a front tire breaks loose, you can sometimes make the crucial difference by partially turning the front wheels back and forth. It walks the front end forward.

 

[Dfeland]

O. K. a quick fourwheel drive lesson. 95 dodge=vacuum front axle disconnect(should have bought a first gen). Your t-case a nvg241hd is a chain drive case with 4hi N 4lo and 2hi. You do not have part time fourwheel drive meaning that there is no viscous couping or spider gears in your case to differentiate the front and rear driveshafts. You may have gone into gear with your transfer case but the axle disconnect may not have been enaged. When you have equal traction to all four tires then you have four wheel drive but the minute you lose traction to either front or rear tire that tire starts to spin and if it happens on both axles then you don't go anywhere. Four wheel drive is not really four wheel drive it should actaully be "four wheel drive if all the conditions are just right" Unless you have a limited slip or locker. Some dodges were equiped with a power loc limited slip in the rear but they have NEVER come factory in the front because it would be dangerous to drive that way the truck would not stay on the road it would just slide off. A limited slip is nothing more than clutch packs with preload on them to "limit slip" on the tire without traction. It will aid in getting unstuck but does not always to the trick. To totally lock axles is not a very good idea either seeing how our trucks (most of them are driven on the highway frequently) would have negative things happen to them. Reduced tire life because the tire would always "burp" around corners, the locker also tries to steer the vehicle a little. Don't get me wrong in the jeep its great but my truck I don't think so. So next time you think of four wheel drive think of it as "Four wheel drive under the right conditions". :--) :--)