No Powerstroke Needed

[TXDSLSHOP]

I am a firefighter here in Texas and my Dept is about to make a grave mistake in my opinion. We have been using Freightliner chassis for our ambulances for about 5 years now with mostly excellent service. Some of the upper administration are thinking of purchasing Ford 1 ton chassis or possibly F-550 chassis to use in our new ambulances. Their reasoning behind it is that our neighboring city recently bought one and "theirs looks cool". They do not have to drive them, nor do they have to hastle with taking them to be serviced everytime the POS has to get repaired. The units we currently have run Cummins and Allison Trans. Which as we all know is near bulletproof, with the exception of minor mishaps. Could someone please point me in the right direction in order to dig up substaintial documented problems with the F-350 through F-550 with the Ford PSD/ Auto transmission combo. I really would like to at least try to convince them to stay with a comperable chassis! No PSD Needed! Thanks!

 

[Lurch]

Not sure about the 550 but I know the 650 can be had with the Cummins, then everybodies happy.



Lurch

 

[WOWZY]

My Dad has been driving for our county's EMS for 30 years. He said the best ambulances that were trouble free were the Dodges in the late 70's and early 80's. Their whole fleet had 440's in them. Mostly trouble free. When they got 200,000miles on them and they would sell them to my Dad for $500 a piece without the box. He would then put beds on them and fill in the 2ft. gap between the cab and the bed with a custom made tool box and them sell them for $4000 a piece. I still see a few of them on the road today.



Sometime in the 80's they went to Chevy and those did pretty good until the Gen ? 454 came out and they wouldn't last much over 75,000-80,000miles some sooner before they would come apart. Then they went to Ford and 5 of their units caught on fire because of some transmission line or something splitting and spraying the exhaust manifold with fluid and all 5 burnt down to the ground. Ford got sued and had to refund the countyfor their whole Ford ambulance fleet.



They went to Freightliner and all of them have the Cummins and not one bit of trouble other than very minor things since they were new. Most of them have over 300,000 miles on them. The problem is that the Freightliners are very expensive so the penny pinching Commisioners decided that all new vehicles would be Powerstroke Fords since they couldn't get a RamCummins ambulance. Well my Dad said that they have 10 450 or 550's and 10 E-350 vans and the 10 old Freightliners. The Fords were bought in '99-2001 and all of the Fords except 2 E-vans have been regularly outa service for repairs.



The Commisioner says that he hopes Dodge will get their head outa their butt and make Ambulance approved Cab/Chassis for 2003 so that they can get rid of the Fords and get Dodge/Cummins ambulances to replace their handicapped fleet!



The Freightliner/Cummins are still going strong!

 

[BCFAST]

Why in the world would they want to down-grade from a 'truck' to a 'pickup'? Dont they pro-rate the cost over the service life of the vehicle? I rather doubt the 550 will go 300k miles (let alone on the same motor!) during EMS duty. Point out that the pumpers you all rely on are using I-6 diesels, and that saving an injured person should have the same priority.

 

[fj40charles]

I beg to differ... .



I say, "no powerjoke, flowerpoke, slowpoke, or powersmoke needed"

 

[Amianthus]

Stick with the FL.

Most of the ambulances around here run the PS. They are okay, but they do have problems. If you aren't gonna keep it very long, the PS will do just fine. But if you want something heavy, the FL is the only way to go.

We just bought a new pumper (I know it's got little to do with the topic at hand). It's an International 5300. Not a bad truck, but not great. #ad


We also have a FL80 tanker (with Cat engine 3126). AWESOME truck!!! They weigh about the same (the FL is lighter by about 4,000 lbs. ) But the FL will flat out kick the crap outta our International. #ad




My advice, stick to the FL, you WON'T be disappointed.

 

[Dr.Evil]

I'm a little surprised at the comparison between the Navistar and the "Little Lighter" Freightliner. I know from personal experience that 400#-500# makes a difference in the weigh 70,000# semis run, Why would You expect 4000# to NOT make a difference? We have an FL70 doing local pick-up/delivery here at work. POOR truck. If I was looking for a medium duty I'd look long and hard at the Navistar NGT before I did anything. That's one sharp looking truck!!

DENNY... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

 

[Amianthus]

You might have something there.

Denny, I was just guessing at the weights. I know our IH is 28,000 empty and our FL80 carries 16,000 of water. I'll get you better numbers after tonights meeting.



But that aside, our FL handles weight sooooo much better than the IH. The cab is nicer, the feel is better. I just think it's a better truck, IMO.



BTW, are you going down to Illinois this weekend for the campout? Lemme know, if you don't mind.

 

[Dr.Evil]

There's the Problem! The Binder should be a twin-screw! My 18-wheeler weighed less than 28K empty full of fuel including the trailer. Lotta weigh for a long single axle truck. I'll assume the frt axle is rated 12K and the rear axle 20K, so Your only 4K from capacity. If the axles are rated higher than that then Your overloading the tires. 10. 00X20's 11X22. 5's etc. only handle a max of about 5500# in single tire service. Duals are rated lower, about 4500 to 5000# at a lower inflation pressure. Legally You can go to 20K on the steering axle but You need a Super-Single tire to carry the weight. I think You'll find the Freighliner is a LOT lighter than the Binder if it can still carry 16,000# of water.

I've got other plans for this weekend already made by others. Won't be able to make the campout, but does include a trip south of the border beyond the Cheddar Curtain.





DENNY... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .....

 

[RGRAT1618]

I am a fighterfighter for castle shannon outside of pittsburgh, pa. We just got a F-450 with a custom box on the back. We have so pretty steep hills in the area. The power stroke is a real dog. It dose the job but slowly. It's even worse in 4X4. The truck looks great and dose serve it's purpose. We are have a couple of problems with The engine driven genarator. But that is about it. If you want to see it go to our web site. Any other questions E-mail me at -- email address removed --



Rob



www.csvfd.org

 

[Bill Lins]

Originally posted by WOWZY

the penny pinching Commisioners decided that all new vehicles would be Powerstroke Fords since they couldn't get a RamCummins ambulance.

What??? Check wth Frazier in Houston- I've seen a bunch of Ram EMS units come out of there.

 

[Amianthus]

Denny,

Here's some better numbers on our trucks.



Engine 772 (the IH) is a 4900 with a IH 530 engine (330 HP?). It's a 244" WB that comes in at 28,600 lbs. Yes, it should be a tandem. But the chief is afraid of letting some people drive the tandem axle (and some maneuverability issues). He wants to stick with single "screw" and this truck takes that to it's limits.



Tanker 773 (the FL) is a FL 80 with a Cat 3126 engine (330 HP). It weighs approx 12,800 empty and 28,800 full (give or take on the water we take on). The GVWR is 36,580 (13,880 FRT, 22,700 REAR).



Again, the FL handles the weight much better than the IH. Not to mention, it flat out hauls. Both transmissions are the same Allison world automatics. I personally have had the FL80 to 78 MPH loaded (not me, the truck). And almost 90 unloaded (guess because the speedo only goes to 85. That was by accident). The IH takes all day to get to 70 (about a mile and a half). But it will get there. And it does have a 84 MPH top speed (so I'm told).

I know that this has little to do with the PS, but I didn't want bad information out about our rigs.

 

[Dr.Evil]

When My old White RoadBossII was almost new, 320 HP 903 Cummins geared for 67 MPH at 2500 RPM, it would march right up to that speed and holed it real well, even at almost 70,000lbs! These horses MUST be getting smaller to need 330 of them to move a 30,000# striaght truck! I used to drive ready-mix trucks in the summer when I was in school. The old junkers only had 165 HP Cummins and a 5X4 transmission, and would run 50-60 MPH at 50,000#, 60-65 M-T, about 22,000#. The Diamond Reo had a Big 555 V-8 and 208 HP, But the Allison 5 spd auto heald it back to about the same speeds as the old junker. I wouldn't have worried about having someone drive a twin-screw, the bigger trucks are the easier they are to drive!

DENNY... ... ... ... ... ...

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I have a ton of insight on ambulances. I work for an ambulance service in my area as a mechanic and pretty much EVERY ambulance that isn't on a Freightliner chassis is a PSD of some type.

We've had decent (at best) luck with the 'cut-van' chassis/box type III trucks. Brakes tend to eat themselves very quickly... . and if you don't lube the caliper slides every 3k miles (!!!) the pads wear out even quicker.

The major issue with small truck/van chassis ambulances is that they are dangerously close to GVW ALL the time!

The F*rd trannies (E40D and 4R100) are junk... . about every 70k miles we change a transmission and it's something different everytime that happens when it lets go. We either have 'em rebuilt..... or get 'em from F*rd RMP (remanufactured). People drive these smaller ambulances as if they are sports cars... . and stuff breaks. In my opinion... the larger trucks would be driven more conservatively.

We've changed 5 water pumps on one PSD in a year... . 1st one was $450 and the others were warranteed... . F*rd sez: "you must've got a bad batch... . " The high-pressure oil system for the HEUI injectors ($3400!!!!!/set of 8) is REALLY expensive to fix..... $1200 for new HP oil pump... . $150 for special oil lines that require o-rings that Ford can't even get (U have to go to Navistar... )... . $1200 for injector driver controller... . the list goes on.

C'mon Dodge... . certify your chassis' for ambulance use and put a decent transmission behind the best diesel goin'!!



Matt