No Spin and Shift on fly??

[Dean Upson]

Originally posted by JosephTaylor

After reading the posts regarding the "electronic shift on the fly" option. I'm thinking maybe I don't want it (dependability issues) However, my ordered truck is in "BX" status, is it possible to delete this option or am I too late and hope it works right ?????

Most folks who actually have the "dial a drive" really like it, including myself. There have been very few negative posts.



Dean

 

[DCaswell]

What Dean said, spent Sunday ice fishing & the lake had about 11/2 ft wind packed snow. Just turned the knob as I hit the edge of the lake & awaay we go. Use mine alot on back roads up here & no problems with it. Prefer it over the previous truck with stick.

 

[TBrennan]

All the talk of failures are just that, talk. I've never heard of the electric motor failing, I have heard of the mechanical linkage in the manual system failing and / or binding though. I think the eleectric will be just as reliable.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by SMorneau

Your diff lube will not stay clean as long

What makes you think that, you know their are no clutch packs in these units.



As for the rear sliding more, yes it will, but that is why they have 4 wheel drive. I see no reason to try and drive on icey roads in 2 wheel drive when you have 4 wheel.

 

[Dean Upson]

Originally posted by SMorneau

I didn't see where anyone mentioned it but with a LSD (I have one) you will tend to go sideways much easier than with an open diff. It's great when you want to slide around a corner with the tires squealing! You will be able double your rear axle traction.



Now the downside. Your diff lube will not stay clean as long and when you are on off-camber ice situtations your rear end will go sideways when you break loose. With both tires breaking traction there is nothing to hold the rear of truck on the hill. They are not the best in all icy road situations. If you let someone drive your high torque truck with a LSD who doesn't know what they are doing odds are good they will put your truck in the ditch in icey conditions or at least have a lifelong memory of your truck.



My unloaded std cab truck has virtually no traction in 2wd in the snow so I really don't think the LSD helps me very much (2 x 0 = 0). I would order it for sure but I wouldn't pass up a truck only because it had an open diff.

IMO the AA ls axle is by far better than the Dana and no clutches or additive to the lube.



Dean

 

[InThinAir]

I see so many post regarding this topic and I guess here is my take on it. I have had a 96 with the Dana LSD, I have a 2001 Dana open diff and a 2003 with the AA LSD. So I have a little experience with them all now. I live at 10,000 feet above sea level and work at around 5000ft make that commute everyday in the winter. I drop 4000 ft in the first 17 miles going and go up the same going home. I have and always will have 4 studded snows on my trucks for winter and when they are available for the dual I will buy 6.



Now those are my driving habits and here is my statement.



The open diff is by far and away the best truck on snow and ice that I have owned!



When you are looking at a drop off the side of the road and you break traction I would have to clean myself up when the LSD truck turns sideways! I always engaged 4x4 in the 96 because of that fact. I rarely need it with the open diff. I do break loose sometimes on the 7 to 9% grades that are ice covered. But it stays straight as an arrow. And if I have trouble getting moving I engage the 4x4 and then disengage immediately.



I will also say that the LSD maintenance schedule should be quicker changes than the open. The 96 needed it every 25-30k the 2001 looks new at 30k intervals, on my 3rd change at 85k.



This is just my humble opinion.



---Doug

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by InThinAir

And if I have trouble getting moving I engage the 4x4 and then disengage immediately.



---Doug

I don't get why I here this from so many people. Why did you buy a 4x4 if you don't want to use it? If it is that slippery why would you NOT use 4x4. Help me to understand this, I think their are too many people out their that seem to think you can't run your truck down the road in 4x4.

 

[DLeno]

I go in and out of 4wd all the time on the highway. I was on I84 West headed for Pendleton, OR and coming over the blue mtns it was icy and compact snow all over the place. Before the slick conditions hit, I was on wet pavement and using 2H. Then I rounded a corner passing a semi and encountered ice, and immediately dropped into 4H. The manual lever was easily reached; I was thankful I didn't have to find a button, and the shift occured smoothly and effortlessly



I drive in 4H all the time if the road conditions are slick, sometimes on wet pavement near freezing when I'm not sure if there is any ice on the road or not. One of the benefits of not having hubs is that it forces the 4WD system to be balanced well. You dont' have to wait for no stinkin hubs to engage; you have instant control. the only issue is that you don't want driveline windup so its pretty bad to run in 4H on dry pavement.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by DLeno

I was thankful I didn't have to find a button, and the shift occured smoothly and effortlessly

Actually it is very easy to use, and it is a knob not a button. I find it much easier and faster then reaching down on to the floor. Believe me I wasn't a supporter of the electric shift when it came out, but with the Laramie package I had no choice. Now that I have it man do I love it.



If their is any snow or ice on the road it is right into 4x4 for me, if the road dries up of course I take it out. Last night my buddy was following me home in blizzard conditions and he was complaining that he couldn't get going. Well turn out he didn't have it in 4x4, he "didn't want to wear it out", what the heck give me a break. But then he was drivin a Chevy, lots of parts to wear out their.



And I here that alot on these board, things like "I don't put it in 4x4 unless I am 1/2 spun out in the ditch" kinda things.

 

[InThinAir]

I stay out of 4x4 for 2 reasons. 3 actually but 2 primary



Fuel economy and wear on the front drive components.



I drive an average of 40k miles annually in my truck. I lose on average of 1 to 1. 5 miles per gallon with the 4x4 engaged. That saves me a bit on fuel.



Also wear and tear on the components. The front axle of these trucks are not as heavy duty as the rear. I believe, maybe not true, that I can prolong the life of the expensive components like the transfer case, if I only use 4x4 when really necessary.



And the 3rd is that I don't feel like I need it most of the time. I usually in the winter engage the 4WD daily to drive to the barn and to get up my driveway to the house. Funny story is that I used to keep a strap tied around the supports to my porch that I attached to the truck to keep it from sliding down the driveway into another vehicle. I was able to stop that by installing gutters on the house so that water wouldn't drip and freeze on my driveway making it icy, did that for 3 winters.



---Doug

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by InThinAir

I stay out of 4x4 for 2 reasons. 3 actually but 2 primary



Fuel economy and wear on the front drive components.



I drive an average of 40k miles annually in my truck. I lose on average of 1 to 1. 5 miles per gallon with the 4x4 engaged. That saves me a bit on fuel.



Also wear and tear on the components. The front axle of these trucks are not as heavy duty as the rear. I believe, maybe not true, that I can prolong the life of the expensive components like the transfer case, if I only use 4x4 when really necessary.



And the 3rd is that I don't feel like I need it most of the time. I usually in the winter engage the 4WD daily to drive to the barn and to get up my driveway to the house. Funny story is that I used to keep a strap tied around the supports to my porch that I attached to the truck to keep it from sliding down the driveway into another vehicle. I was able to stop that by installing gutters on the house so that water wouldn't drip and freeze on my driveway making it icy, did that for 3 winters.



---Doug

#1 the front parts are turning all the time reguardless, as is the front drive shaft. The only thing you are doing is locking in the transcase, which also turns all the time because the drive shaft is.



#2 I have not seen that great of a difference in mileage and what is 1 mpg compared to totaling a $40,000 truck and maybe hurting some one in the process.

 

[DLeno]

yea I'm sure its easy to use and that its all user preferences. the electronic shift could actually be more reliable -- if you shift under load, won't the electric system shift when it can? For me, the lever is easier to reach but thats just me...



But yea I sure agree on the drivability thing. if its slick enough to consider the behavior of the LSD, you should be in 4WD anyway.



I agree with the fuel economy but not the wear statements. Thing is, if the road conditions raise the issue, fuel economy and wear are the last things on my mind and safety goes right to the top. And I find that if road conditions warrant 4WD I'm driving less than 55 mph (usually 35-45 or less) and this causes my fuel economy to rise naturally. Last trip included 2 hours at 25-45 mph all 4WD and I got 19 mpg.



wear is a non issue in my opinion. these components are arguably the most durable in the industry which is one of the principle reasons to favor the RAM 4WD system over the others.

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by DLeno

yea I'm sure its easy to use and that its all user preferences. the electronic shift could actually be more reliable -- if you shift under load, won't the electric system shift when it can?

Pretty much it wont shift unless everything is OK it seems. It will give a little POP sometimes going into low but other then that you can't even tell it shifted into HI. I have never tried enguaging it while spinning to see if it will grind, don't think I will either



I never though I would be converted to electonic, but I sure do like it now that I got it. The extra space on the floor is nice also. Lets wait and see 70,000 miles down the road and see if I still like it. LOL

 

[DPelletier]

All right, I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth as well;



- As far as the LSD goes, I've had many trucks with both a LSD and open diff. When offroading, I've discovered the LSD makes quite a bit of difference. On the other hand, I don't offroad my 3500 quad cab dually! If I had a 2wd, I would insist on a LSD. With a 4x4, its less of an issue for MY purposes. If I want to do serious offroading I use my new Jeep TJ. FWIW, my opinion is that the LSD is better than nothing, but its a far cry from a locker. I think some people expect too much from the factory limited slip.



With regards to the "dial a drive" as it has become known; I choose to have the manual shift lever. As it has been mentioned, both transfer cases are identical and both have "shift on the fly". I will admit that the purist in me wanted the manual lever, but I don't think those with the electronic shifter are going to experience widespread problems. That having been said, I don't think one can rationally argue that the shift lever isn't more reliable. I am very impressed with the transfer case engagement on this unit. I can usually reach down with one finger and go from 2H to 4H. Very smooth. If I had the 48RE rather than the NV5600, I may have considered the "dial a drive" to clear the floor area, but having the six speed, I chose not to. To each their own.



Dave

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by DPelletier

All right, I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth as well;



- As far as the LSD goes, I've had many trucks with both a LSD and open diff. When offroading, I've discovered the LSD makes quite a bit of difference. On the other hand, I don't offroad my 3500 quad cab dually! If I had a 2wd, I would insist on a LSD. With a 4x4, its less of an issue for MY purposes. If I want to do serious offroading I use my new Jeep TJ. FWIW, my opinion is that the LSD is better than nothing, but its a far cry from a locker. I think some people expect too much from the factory limited slip.



With regards to the "dial a drive" as it has become known; I choose to have the manual shift lever. As it has been mentioned, both transfer cases are identical and both have "shift on the fly". I will admit that the purist in me wanted the manual lever, but I don't think those with the electronic shifter are going to experience widespread problems. That having been said, I don't think one can rationally argue that the shift lever isn't more reliable. I am very impressed with the transfer case engagement on this unit. I can usually reach down with one finger and go from 2H to 4H. Very smooth. If I had the 48RE rather than the NV5600, I may have considered the "dial a drive" to clear the floor area, but having the six speed, I chose not to. To each their own.



Dave

All very well said, I too think people expect too much from the LSD in these trucks. Like you I have no plans on off-roading the dually I have a 83 W350 and a 76 R/C for that, both of which run ARB lockers. On the trail even a LSD is a big inprovement over an open diff. But the bigger the tires and more the power the less effective they become.



Now DPelletier, we just got to get you out of that Jeep. Ya know anyone can off road a Jeep, real men can snake a full size truck through the trees, LOL

 

[InThinAir]

I guess we are talking about 2 separate issues. The first is LSD version open. The second is the use of 4WD.



I would most definately agree that if I bought a 2WD pickup that LSD would be a must. But I would think that most 2WD owners see poor/slick driving condition very seldom. I would also agree that when it is time for 4WD then IT IS TIME. My statement is that my open diff is more predictible when traction has broken loose. And right now that is a daily occurence for me sometimes many many times.



So the second issue would be why do I not have 4WD engaged at that time. Well because I would see a considerible lose in MPG over the long haul if I was engaged 30% of my driving time. Where I live I drive on snowpacked icy roads for a majority of the winter. As I mentioned before. I am forced to use 4WD almost daily. I have extracted, winter to date, almost a dozen stuck vehicles. Even this last Saturday pulled out a 4x4 Ford Dually, pulled up to him in 2WD and pulled him out in 4LO and then unhooked and back to 2HI.



So I guess the last thing I would say, prolly get me in trouble, is that I think people get a false sense of security with their 4WD. I know that I drive faster in 4WD then in 2WD on icy conditions. I know when I hit the go pedal in 4WD I go, in 2WD if I try to increase my speed I have to do it carefully. I will have instant feedback to the road conditions and in turn changes my driving.



I drive a lot of miles in bad conditions by myself, so I guess I think about this stuff too much.



---Doug

 

[Mopar_Mudder]

Originally posted by InThinAir

So I guess the last thing I would say, prolly get me in trouble, is that I think people get a false sense of security with their 4WD.

---Doug

You are right, too many yuppies get in their 4x4 and figure since they can go good they can stop good too, which we know isn't the case. As long as you are happy that is all that maters, I will keep using my 4x4.



Just foor for though, lets say you drive 50,000 miles in 4x4 and you get 17 mpg instead of 19 that you would get in 2 wheel. That is 2 mpg loss do to 4x4, more then you mensioned. That said for that 50,000 miles you are going to use an extra 310 gallons of fuel. Now at lets say $1. 70/gal (you can get it for less then that) you are going to spend $527. 00 extra because of 4x4, now if you ask me that isn't even worth thiking about the difference.



That is 50,000 miles, in realitly you probably wouldn't put 1/2 that on in 4x4, just using the worse case type of thing.



P. S. Check my math

 

[SMorneau]

When it's really icy the LSD will put your rearend sideways when you take off even in 4x4. I don't always like to drive the icy freeways in 4x4 you lose to much steering and I'm already going slow with a feather touch on the pedal. It's usually directional control I looking for. JMO





The knobs are fine and shouldn't pose any vibration problems like the levers. I don't know of any binding problems with the lever just the internals. These will still be there with the electric actuator your just won't know it.





How does the knob keep you from trying to go into low range? Is there a detent?

 

[DPelletier]

Mopar_Mudder,

Actually, I'm too scared to even try to snake my truck through the trees!!

Heck, I have enough problems going in the drive-thru window at McDonalds!

I usually leave the Jeep behind in the real tight stuff and take the dirt bike. Yes, I know, that's cheating , but if it makes any difference I go really fast!

LOL



Dave



ps. saw a picture of your offroad toys. looks like alot of fun.

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by SMorneau

I don't always like to drive the icy freeways in 4x4 you lose to much steering and I'm already going slow with a feather touch on the pedal.

boy, the way I look at it, if there's ice and I'm driving on it, I'm always in 4H. too much risk of breaking the rear tires loose, and All of a sudden you're reading your rear license plate. do you climb hills in 2WD on ice too? Happily, locking the front and rear axles together is a nice bonus in that situation -- even deceleration "against the motor" is more predictable in 4H because you have both axles gripping instead of two. These trucks, when empty, have twice as much weight on the front axle as on the rear, and thats a fishtail waiting to happen on even the smallest hills if you have to give it any fuel. I don't even know what it means to loose steering in 4x4 on the highway because I find the truck to track very well, and the overall performance on slick roads in 4WD is great. I'm just dern pleased with the 4H performance on the highway.



I guess I'm just resonating with Mopar. I got a 4WD truck for increased traction and saftey, and I use it whenever that capability is a benefit -- which is anytime the roads are slick. My BFG AT KO tires in 4H are wonderful on compact snow and on ice.



BTW, the ABS is wonderful too. I recommend experiementing where there is room and see how the truck behaves in a full ABS stop on slick pavement. its pretty impressive actually.