2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission No steering no brakes! Please help!

[tblb0900]

Rough weekend! Changed filler neck, no problem. Changed fuel filter, sucked but ok. After changing fuel filter, priming fuel system, and starting engine, reved @ about 2500 for 30 seconds and then felt steering wheel jerk to the left. Brake and steering assist was gone. $400 later I have installed a new hydraulic booster and ps pump. No change, I still have no assist on the steering or brakes. Could I have bumped something when changing fuel filter? Please help, need truck for work. Thank you in advance for any input.

 

[B.G. Smith]

The drive for the power steering pump may have failed. Do you still have vacuum supply? bg

 

[KRStone]

Don't know if your '97 is the same as my '96, but my truck is vacuum pump operated.



Yes, it's easy to bump/displace the vacuum lines when doing the fuel filter. My exhaust brake vacuum lines run right across the top of the engine near the rear, and it's impossible not to push them when doing the fuel filter. Trace the lines and check them all. If your exhaust brake is vacuum operated, try and see if it stopped working also.



Serpentine belt still on? Still routed right? Everything spinning properly?



If yours is setup the same, it might be the same problem.



You revved your free-wheeling engine to 2,500 rpm for 30 seconds? It's your call, but I would stop doing that immediately.

 

[Missouri Mule]

97's are hydraulic, powered by the power steering pump and that is all I know about them ( I should learn more, my Frieghtliner is hydraulic).

 

[KRStone]

97's are hydraulic, powered by the power steering pump and that is all I know about them ( I should learn more, my Frieghtliner is hydualic).

I thought there may be a difference; and that would be it :]

 

[GAmes]

When you replaced the PS pump did you remove the vacuum pump and reinstall as a unit? The PS pump is driven by a cross shaped disk mounted in the rear of the VP. The lugs have been known to break. If you have verified the disc and lugs are intact I would suspect a hose has collapsed internally. Rebuild pumps often leave something to be desired also, your new pump might be bad. The cost is a little higher but a new OEM pump is well worth the cost.

 

[GCroyle]

I wish I had some meaningful help for you on this one, I bet GAmes has some insight here. The only meager insight I have is when we replaced the steering gearbox on our '97 is took a long time to get it bled it was a mess and hydraulics don't like air. The hose suppliers get real concerned about dislodging a long sleeping line and then exposing the system to the internal trash generated from handling the line. We installed an inline filter for a transmission into the return line to catch debris while we replaced the hoses on the '97.



But I feel your frustration on this one. My best neighbor/hunting buddy/camping friend just went thru a MAJOR ugly series of repairs on his 6. 0L (please no Ford trashing, not required) PS pump (3rd), Steering Gear box (3rd). It's a long story and I tried to help him with research info that became IMHO sorely lacking about diagnosing the system, PS Pump, Steering Gearbox, Hydroboost, correct line sealing system, inline filter, correct fluid type etc.



So here is my request for info to our TDR community:



Does anyone have the real story on diagnostic flow charts and component explanation to help us shade tree types get through one of these nasty frustrating expensive repairs? I'll probally forward this to TDR direct also and if they don't have an article on this that they consider one as a guideline.



We couldn't even find a circuit diagram and as you are trying to understand why you have power brakes but not PS or why the steering effort drops as you apply and then resume after releasing the brakes, it gets ugly.



GOOD LUCK!

 

[tblb0900]

Wow! Thank all of you for the replys. Just got home from work (borrowed the mother in laws minivan). Thought about replacing all the hoses but would not want to go through that expense if I don't have to. I think I either got a bad pump or have a blockage though because I disconnected the return hose, started the enging, and no fluid. I did remove the vaccum pump and ps pump as an assembly and assembled on bench. I looked pretty closely at vp and everything seemed to be ok. Just rebuilt vp a year ago to fix oil leak. Also replaced hydraulic booster, ps pump (3 times ), and steering gear a year ago due to similar symptoms. After the third ps pump it finally worked. I am thinking that I might have contaminated fluid. I want to flush the system but I don't know if I have another bad ps pump or a clogged hose or for that matter a stuck valve on one of the componnents. I am totally lost on my next step. Don't have the cash to just be grasping at straws. Also , cannot find an inexpensive pressure test kit to see if the ps pump has any output on the high pressure side.

 

[GCroyle]

I wish I had your answer. I don't. But in talking to several of the aftermarket suppliers out there on steering topics one thing they seem to unanimously agree on is the number of hydraulic steering components wasted as the alleged bad parts are used to flush out contamination in the systems.



We just came back from a loaded 5'er test drive with my buddy's 6. 0L and it passed a 30+ mile shakedown in fine style. In order to help me understand this system I finally made a sketch of the circuitry on the last day of the project, it helped but it was a bit late.



The PS Pump makes pressure. It's customers for this energy are the HB (hydroboost) and SG (steering gear) his remote reservoir had 3 lines, one large one to the PSP, and a seperate return from the SG and HB. The other lines are: pump pressure to the HB and one line from the HB to the SG.



If you do not have any pressure to either the HB or SG, time to consider the pump but is it making pressure and fighting air bubbles in the rest of the system? We didn't have a gage or even a diagram and it was nasty. I had our '97 on stands while we ran it stop to stop, top off and repeat to bleed it IIRC.



Inline filters might be a good investment in future service life and new hoses, well we are told lots of stories about how they deteriorate and then after handling during R&R, things get ugly.



Good luck.

 

[tblb0900]

Thanks for the reply Gary. I am thinking I do have hoses that are deteriorating and might just replace them all. Do you or does anyone know if there is a way to manually flush the system since I am getting no return to ps pump? Also, the filter is a good idea, where might I look for one?

 

[GCroyle]

We got the filter at NAPA, brand ATP 3/8" #18514, others brands do exist. If you have a return line from the steering gear to reservoir, I'd put it in that line, it has the most fluid flow, brake HB line only active on brake cycling based on our wrencing and flushing the system out the HB return line.

 

[tblb0900]

Ok I'll try that. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

unbolt the ps pump from the vacuum pump and re-read GAmes post.

 

[tblb0900]

vac pump looks good. The dealer or mopar parts online could not even give me an eta on a new oem pump. They are on back order. Does anybody know of a good aftermarket pump and where I can find one. I am going to change the hoses anyway in the meantime. They are pretty old.

 

[B.G. Smith]

unbolt the ps pump from the vacuum pump and re-read GAmes post.

Sometimes it seems that all the post don't show up on everyones screen??? bg

 

[GAmes]

Did you try Mopar4 less? Save Big @ Mopar4Less.com!! - Full Line Of Mopar Parts -

Be sure to ask for and verify internet price.

 

[tblb0900]

They had one! Thank you GAmes.

 

[tblb0900]

UPS says my new oem pump should be here friday. Super excited to get my truck back. Will post back and let everyone know if it fixes the problem. New pump is almost 6 times the cost @ $515 compared to $89 @ orileys. Dealer wanted $705 and could not even tell me when they could get one. Thank you GAmes and mopar 4 less. Still probably be eating beans and franks for awhile. Have replaced all return lines, added aftermarket filter, replaced high pressure lines, replaced hydroboost, verified lugs and crossdisc are good on vac pump, and steering gear only 1 year old, completely flushed all fluid, anything else I'm missing?

 

[GAmes]

$515!!:--):--):--) I'll have to look at my receipt when I get home. I do not remember paying that much. On the other hand, not having to replace the pump every two or three months (twice while on the road) would make it worth more than that to me.

 

[tblb0900]

Well it appears that I am back on the road for now. Just installed new oem pump, bled the system, and everything is ok. I have never been able to turn lock to lock with my 35 bfg's while standing still at idle, but I can now. Thank you GAmes again for all of your useful insight. Will post again if any problems occur but I am pretty confident right now that it is fixed. It will definatly be worth the $ if i don't have to mess with this system again!!!!!!