Not Flamin' The TAG But.......

[EMD-Run8]

Well, after my road trip to Orlando last weekend and after reading a bunch of different posts on the TAG I decided to remove mine and try it out. I'm kinda scratchin' my head 'cause this seems to make no sense but off-idle (like a third gear start without any throttle) response SEEMS to be better without the TAG. That sounds strange because you're in a "no boost" situation (airflow sensor sensitivity maybe?). It also SEEMS that I'm using less pedal to do the same amount of work. It also SEEMS like the turbo is working less to do the same amount of work. At first I thought nahhhhh----I'm just sniffin' too many diesel fumes. But then I checked my fuel mileage on about 1/4 tank which I know probably can't be trusted compared to checking a full tank but I got 19. 88 mpg. Now this raises my eyebrow 'cause in this short time I've pedaled it once a little and a co-worker of mine who wanted a test drive kinda romped it some too. 19. 92 is the best I've ever gotten with my truck with 16,800 miles on it and that was about 10,000 miles ago! I'm gonna eyeball this some more and see what happens. Now for fairness I will say that the TAG made an ABSOLUTELY obvious difference for the better when I installed it at about 5,000 miles WHEN THE STOCK EXHAUST SYSTEM WAS STILL ON THE TRUCK! BUT!!!! After I put the four-incher on I couldn't really tell. Now, since I've taken the TAG out the turbo still spools up nice and smooth and just doesn't seem to be as busy as with the TAG in. Hmmmmmmmmmmm... ... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

EDM, you might try going without for a few days and make some notes on EGTs vs. Boost levels and at what boost level you need to run 70mph (or some specific speed for comparisons) then once you've got some data logged put the TAG back in and see what you find. It could be what turbo you have and power levels may affect how it behaves, but I know those who gained the most benefit were the ones towing and putting a sustained load on the truck.



Let us know what you find. I have the latest TAG and it doesn't seem to spool quite as fast initially but is better through the midrange. Haven't had it long enough to compare mileage.



Vaughn

 

[Evan A. Beck]

TAG = deficit in power. On our dyno, we have repeatedly lost between 5 and 13 HP with the TAG installed.



Can you say intake restriction?

 

[DPKetchum]

The exhaust system change alone was worth 1 to 1. 5 mpg.

 

[JHardwick]

TAG = deficit in power. On our dyno, we have repeatedly lost between 5 and 13 HP with the TAG installed.



Can you say intake restriction?

I said this before, but has no proof. The honey comb material is probably pretty thin, but it looks fairly tightly packed with small spacing. In my mind it has to reduce cross sectional area to at least some degree and would almost have to cause a low pressure area just behind it. I would think high pressure right up to the turbo face would be best.



I have no proof, just trying to apply a little logic

 

[EMD-Run8]

Thanks for the responses gents. I don't have an EGT or combo gauge right now but expect to have it soon. But, what got me to try this little experiment was the fuel mileage I got on my road trip. It was in the high 17's on both tanks running between 75-80 mph. Not bad surely but I wondered if it could be better. After I got home I replaced the airfilter which was used but not "crusted" by any means. BELIEVE me I worked in the commercial power equipment business for several years and I know what a dirty air filter looks like!! I also removed the TAG and immediately noticed the SOP differences I mentioned before. Last night I put the TAG back in and drove it a while and promptly came home and took it right back out! The difference was noticeable and after a full tank I should be able to confirm whether or not fuel mileage is improved. Stay tuned.

 

[ctdodgeram]

EDM, you might try going without for a few days and make some notes on EGTs vs. Boost levels and at what boost level you need to run 70mph (or some specific speed for comparisons) then once you've got some data logged put the TAG back in and see what you find. It could be what turbo you have and power levels may affect how it behaves, but I know those who gained the most benefit were the ones towing and putting a sustained load on the truck.



Let us know what you find. I have the latest TAG and it doesn't seem to spool quite as fast initially but is better through the midrange. Haven't had it long enough to compare mileage.





Vaughn, it's Mark.



I haven't forgotten your fog lights. They're just a pain to get off, & It seems to rain every weekend lately.



Hope your trip went well!

 

[KEarnest]

One year ago August, I ran on a Dynojet 248 to compare TAG vs NO TAG. I first ran without the TAG, then installed the TAG and ran again. The first run with the TAG showed a 3hp loss, but the second run with the TAG I did the exact same as without the TAG, 345hp. I'm not going to quibble over 3hp, it's not important to me. What is important to me is the decrease in EGT's, the increase in fuel mileage and most importantly to me is the extreme decrease in turbo whine, especially with an open filter element.



Gauges tell a story, and when I can see a measurable increase/decrease, that tells me that the TAG is working. Again, not everyone's experience with any of the TAG units will be the same as can be seen by the different viewpoints posted here on the TDR and other diesel forums. I'm sure that the varying truck configurations (BOMBs) and driving styles that we all have play a part in the results one gets with a TAG.

 

[2broke2smoke]

I said this before, but has no proof. The honey comb material is probably pretty thin, but it looks fairly tightly packed with small spacing. In my mind it has to reduce cross sectional area to at least some degree and would almost have to cause a low pressure area just behind it. I would think high pressure right up to the turbo face would be best.



I have no proof, just trying to apply a little logic

amen brother i couldn't agree more ... 300$ to reduce cross sectional area



i have two magnets and a rubber band ... you can wrap them around your fuel line and get 20 mpg increase ... i'll save you guys 200$

 

[ChrisKringle]

ill take some of them ther magnets

 

[mhenon]

I've got more bottom end with the TAG and AFE filter removed. I can launch (empty)in third gear no problems without those two... where it feels weak with them in.

When towing, however, they go back in and I pick up maybe 1/2 mpg. Not a big deal. . but it's doing something right.

I don't think dyno runs at WOT tell the whole story.

Mike

 

[Briman]

My EGTs with a TAG III installed where 50-70 degrees higher in a sustained 70 mph pull on I80 uphill east of Salt Lake City. Turbo spool up was slower in all types of driving. My test lasted two days. After I audition any product I refer to the period of time after the test as the antitest. Some times you wish you had the product back and somtime you dont. This time I didn't. After spending money on other air in/air out mods why stuff an orange in your intake? The TAG III is not just honeycomb metel. It also consists of a large chunk of plastic. The tag I may not be as restrictive but I have not tested it. The last time I posted about the restrictiveness of the TAG III Dave M PMed me to ask for an explanation and than appeared in the thread to do damage control. I imagine he will be here shortly. This is not a flame of the TAG III, just my experience and opinion.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Vaughn, it's Mark.



I haven't forgotten your fog lights. They're just a pain to get off, & It seems to rain every weekend lately.



Hope your trip went well!

Hey Mark! No problem, figured you're busy and the weather's been bad

The rest of the trip went fine, other than the truck not running quite right, but looks like I'm getting that sorted out.



Looks like by your sig you guys are liking my "old" '03 (or should I say your dad) I miss that truck!



Vaughn

 

[GFrance]

Don't be getting all sentimental on us now Vaughn or will have to ask the mods to move this thread to the miss my old truck forum