"Not Recommended For Slide- In Camper" disclaimer...

[DPelletier]

Wow, this is still going on?

Has anyone ever seen a cracked 3rd gen frame? (have seen a few rare cracked 2nd gen frame pics, before though)

This is a CYA statement that has its origins in DC's "risk management" dept as far as I'm concerned.



Gary, "Where there's smoke, theres fire?" Show me some smoke (in the form of statistically significant frame cracks). You won't be able to.



FWIW, I just looked at an inovative truck loading system on Sunday. This system was developed locally and has various accessory packages and a system to automatically load them. They had a 3200 lb camper set-up, a utility box unit, a flat deck, etc. and the system bolted to the factory bed attachment points. The truck was an '03 Dodge Dually and while I was talking to them, they loaded and unloaded the camper section a half dozen times or so. The system slides the unit off the back. I got to thinking "if there was ever a truck that had severe stresses on the frame, this one would be it, so I asked the guy (who was the project engineer) if there was ever a problem with frame cracks on this truck. He said, nope, the truck has 80,000 on it and has been loading and unloading this camper hundreds of times at shows.



Maybe I should crawl under my truck and check my frame, huh?



Dave

 

[DBond]

OK, I'll say/ask again:



IF there is NO known weakness in the 3rd generation Dodge frame, WHY did DC choose to include a printed warning, when as far as *I* know, neither Ford or GM displays a similar warning on THEIR trucks?

...

so WHY would they outta the blue, suddenly decide to vaguely cover a *possible* frame issue, if there IS no known frame issue?



Anyone wanna step up to the plate with a likely response?

If this was a CYA to a frame problem, they would put a warning on EVERY truck, not just a few. The camper weight "not recommended" was on a few in models at the start of the 2004 model year, when I started looking at these trucks, but I don't know how much farther back it goes.

 

[DPelletier]

If this was a CYA to a frame problem, they would put a warning on EVERY truck, not just a few. The camper weight "not recomended" was on a few in models at the start of the 2004 model year, when I started looking at these trucks, but I don't know how much farther back it goes.

Neither of my 3rd gens had such a warning.



Dave

 

[fkovalski]

Wow, this is still going on? ...

Apologies for bringing it up. I tried the search, but did not input the correct phrasing. Gary led me to the thread prior where a lot of information was passed.

I am still unclear as to why Dodge would make this stance. It seems to me a hidden clause that Dodge is doing CYA- AND why on some, but not others etc... but it so muddy that I would like to have a better understanding before I lay down the jack for a new one.



It just really surprises me that this limitation would be on a 3500! (and some duallys as posted!)

 

[klenger]

I am still unclear as to why Dodge would make this stance.

As are the rest of us. Why doesn't Dodge just come out and state the problem and a rigid restriction if one exists? I think it's just typical corporate legal mumbo-jumbo. An actual person created that silly piece of paper. That person knows the reason why it was done. This person does not live on Mars. Dodge could get to the bottom of this if they wanted to.

 

[Grizzly]

OK, I'll say/ask again:



IF there is NO known weakness in the 3rd generation Dodge frame, WHY did DC choose to include a printed warning, when as far as *I* know, neither Ford or GM displays a similar warning on THEIR trucks?



With all the other known issues, DC has NEVER issued warnings - "death wobble", "lift/injection pumps", various large-scale suspension, balljoint and universal joint issues - not a PEEP from DC - so WHY would they outta the blue, suddenly decide to vaguely cover a *possible* frame issue, if there IS no known frame issue?



Anyone wanna step up to the plate with a likely response?

I'll step up to the plate in defence of my '05 Dodge/Cummins DRW. 4x4. I have had my Lance, 11'-3" extended cab-over camper on my truck for months without any problems in ride and handling, and no cracks. This 3rd G truck handles better than my old '95 dually, 4x4 and a lot more power. Fuel mileage is about the same so far. Only difference is that the right rear side is 1" lower than the left rear side with the camper on as measured at the rear of the camper and it is noticeable. It does not effect ride nor handling. May be a weak spring. Is this anything to be concerned with? Grizzly

 

[DKlimas]

Here is my take on this. (The camper recommendation and frame cracking are two sparate issues. )



(These figures are for my '03 QC 4x4 6-speed dually)



GVWR = 12,000 lbs. Front GAWR - 5,200 lbs. Rear GAWR = 9,350 lbs.

Truck-Camper certificated weight rating of 3,204 lbs.



It is a center of gravity & GAWR issue, the weakest link being the front axle.



Example: Fully loaded, right at GVWR with CoG at 1-2 inches in front of the rear axle, the front end weight is about 4,900 lbs or 300 lbs away from the DC GAWR spec of 5,200 lbs.



What happens if:

1. we load all remaining passenger seats with the standard 150 pounds? (150 x 4 = 600)

2. move the CoG forward more than this example?

3. add a snow plow?



Starting to get the picture?



Why haven't ford & gm issued a similar recommendation?

1. They don't have the weight of the Cummins and 5600 6-speed sitting on the front axle.

2. Their sales/marketing/legal departments are different?



I'm not sure, but someone here should be able to back this up; the AAM GAWR for the 9. 5 axle is really somewhere around 5,900 lbs. If this is true, was the axle derated? or is there a weaker component? Upon further investigation, the spare wheel (steel, dually type), was stamped with a load rating of 2,600 lbs. (2,600 x 2 = 5,200) hmmm... Is the spare wheel the same as the other dually steel wheels? Are all spare wheels the same?



So, I'm thinking that as long as one remains within (or close to) the weight specs one should be able to haul whatever one chooses.



Does anyone have some front-end loaded/unloaded weight numbers, include truck and options? Then perhaps we may be able to settle this issue.



Those of you with the "not recommended" certificate, what truck and options do you have?



Now with all that said, for the average Joe/Jean out there wanting to buy a slide-in camper you and I both know that the RV salesman will sell the largest thing on the lot and tell the buyer that it will be just fine on just about anything.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[DPelletier]

I found the website for the truck slider unit I spoke of earlier; it's www.trucktransformer.com



Dave, you're right they are two separate issues (if'n they're issues at all!)



FKolvalski, no need to apologize. That's what this site is for. I just get tired of hearing about this particular issue as I believe it's akin to sightings of Bigfoot or Martians! I don't blame you for wanting to check stuff out, I would too.



Ken, I have to agree with what you've said (again)!



Dave

 

[fkovalski]

... I believe it's akin to sightings of Bigfoot or Martians! ...

But I BELIEVE in BigFoot :-laf - just could'nt believe my eyes when I saw the disclaimer!



I do think that the 3500 will be able to handle the load. And as further brought out, I am hoping that the camper issue and the frame cracking concern are two distinct items.



Gotta' wonder as Gary brought out- "Why in the heck would Dodge 'sneak' a diclaimer in if they were not concerned?" AND- Why does not Dodge just come out and 'splain just what the heck this is all about!! Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Dieselnerd]

I tow a fifth wheel and also use a slide in camper. I called "Ask Dodge" about the slide in camper not recommended piece of paper which came with my new truck. They said campers were OK as long as I didn't exceed the cargo capacity. My camper is well within the cargo rating and my overload springs don't even touch until I fill the water tank. This issue is getting old...

 

[DPelletier]

I tow a fifth wheel and also use a slide in camper. I called "Ask Dodge" about the slide in camper not recommended piece of paper which came with my new truck. They said campers were OK as long as I didn't exceed the cargo capacity. My camper is well within the cargo rating and my overload springs don't even touch until I fill the water tank. This issue is getting old...

My sentiments exactly. Keep in mind that the frame doesn't know if you're carrying a camper or a bunch of drywall, or some lumber, or a load of bark mulch, or a... ... ... ... ... . well, you get the idea.



Dave

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

My sentiments exactly. Keep in mind that the frame doesn't know if you're carrying a camper or a bunch of drywall, or some lumber, or a load of bark mulch, or a... ... ... ... ... . well, you get the idea.



Dave

And what IS the max rated load capacity for a 3500... ?



And about how much DOES a typical well equipped slide-in camper weigh... ?



Not talking about a mere SHELL, but a real live self-contained camper...

 

[champspa]

bottom line is get something that doesn't have a disclaimer , Dodge doesn't make one for a slide-in camper

 

[DPelletier]

And what IS the max rated load capacity for a 3500... ?



And about how much DOES a typical well equipped slide-in camper weigh... ?



Not talking about a mere SHELL, but a real live self-contained camper...

Not sure what you're getting at, Gary, but;



- In my case 12,000 lbs GVWR minus 8338 lbs "empty" truck with me and a full tank of diesel means a payload of 3,662 lbs rated payload. I believe the newer trucks have a slightly higher GVWR (12,200 lbs ?)



- Slide-ins vary from a very light unit of about 1500 - 1800 lbs dry to a fully loaded basement model with slide out around 4,000 lbs. You can plan on carrying another 500 - 1000 lbs worth of "stuff"



- Not sure what you mean on the last item. A slide-in camper is typically self-contained.





Bottom line is you can't exceed the manufacturer's weight ratings whether its a slide in or a load of manure. Again, the truck's frame doesn't intuitively know that it has a slide-in camper on its back! The weight, weight distribution and center of gravity of the load would seem to be the only pertinent factors at play here.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[DaveK98]

My truck is still new so I was reading my manual "again" and noticed that built into the weight ratings is 1 driver at 150lbs. Ha! I haven't been 150 since I was maybe 13... ...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Dave, what I was "getting at", was that many of the larger overhead campers, fully loaded for a trip, plus passengers (unless you typically camp alone... ) will often exceed the stated load rating of the 3500's - and while the truck might NOT know the difference between a camper, and a load of BS, an OVERHEAD camper WILL tend to focus additional load to the FRONT of the truck due to the overhang - just food for thought.



Just visualize the applied inertia applied by a larger overhead camper in heavy braking, as the carried weight - much up at a relatively high center of gravity (unlike the load of BS!) tends to transfer weight forward and DOWN upon the frame and suspension...



And As to the "self-contained" bit, I wanted to level the playing field, and stress that the area of concern IS on the heavier units, and sorta deflect the guys with simple canopies and actual lightweight slide-ins - some of which are pretty minimal in terms of self-containment and added weight...



Personally, I suspect there IS a valid concern and reason for prudent caution, as expressed by DC in their disclaimer, at least where heavier slide-ins are concerned.

 

[fkovalski]

Gary- I tend to agree with you on your deduction. What I don't get about all this discussion is there are some here who state that they HAVE a 'disclaimer' that ALLOWS the use of a camper. I would have to look back at those who replied positive in this regard to see if thier trucks are short bed/ std. cab or what ever. All else being equal, if ONE person has a long bed, Q-cab, SWR 3500 4x4 *WITH* camper permitted then I would like to know why it such and why the one I am looking at does not. AND... is there any thing I can add to make it 'camper worthy. '



I was told by the salesman that camper packages are not being offered on the 3G's because the chassis is wider, thus, eliminating the sway bar or any other item needed to haul such.



I really find it hard to believe that a 1 ton will not carry a camper (in Dodge's eyes. )

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I really find it hard to believe that a 1 ton will not carry a camper (in Dodge's eyes. )"



I totally agree - and I too am puzzled as to why SOME trucks come with a disclaimer, while other similar trucks DON'T!

 

[JTryles]

I had one of these but I assumed it was because it was a short box.

I think it's got everything to do with the fact it's a SRW and not a DRW. The wider footprint of the DRW decreases the chance of a rollover with all that weight up high throwing the CG off.

 

[DBond]

Dave, what I was "getting at", was that many of the larger overhead campers, fully loaded for a trip, plus passengers (unless you typically camp alone... ) will often exceed the stated load rating of the 3500's - and while the truck might NOT know the difference between a camper, and a load of BS, an OVERHEAD camper WILL tend to focus additional load to the FRONT of the truck due to the overhang - just food for thought.



Just visualize the applied inertia applied by a larger overhead camper in heavy braking, as the carried weight - much up at a relatively high center of gravity (unlike the load of BS!) tends to transfer weight forward and DOWN upon the frame and suspension...

Gary

I agree with much of what you say, but that overhang weight is counterbalanced with a couple feet of camper hanging behind the bed. But you are right that the camper has a high COG, and that will have more stress under dynamic conditions than the load of BS.



The thing is, with the fact that it is not uncommon for some TC equipped trucks to be 1000 lbs over GVWR, we don't hear any 1st hand reports of frame damage