NV241LD versus NV241HD observations

[John]

klenger, sure the torque numbers for both units are higher than you may (key word being, may) need however, for the extra "$100. " which unit would you rather have? I'll keep my NV241HD thank you... that is unless one of you wants to donate a new NP205 transfer case to me, then I'll gladly swap. #ad


..... and don't forget the stronger, wider chain in the NV241HD... less stretch, greater longevity

..... face it Mike, this is one you won't win #ad

 

[klenger]

John:
My point in the post was to inform people not to just compare the torque of the engine to that of the transfer case, but that the transmission gearing needed to be considered also.

I was considering getting the HO / 6 speed, and would have gotten the HD xfer case if I had done that. At the last minute I opted for the ETC / 5 speed and didn't get the HD case. If I have any regrets, it will be that I didn't get the HO / 6 speed / HD xfer case combination, but more for the loss of the 6 speed than anything else.

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Ken Lenger
On Order - 2001. 5 2500 QC 4X4 SWB SLT, ETC/DDX 5 Speed, 3. 55 (no antispin), camper group, trailer folding mirrors, RBR CD/Radio, LT265/75R16E AT OWL tires, trailer tow group, Patroit Blue / Agate,
Replaces 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 which is for sale.
Trailite 21' Travel Trailer, ~4000 lbs loaded.

 

[MikeR]

Right John,
I know I won't win this debate. #ad

I just want guys to be aware that unless they are going to be participating in tractor pulls there's no way they're going to be putting max power through the t-case while 4wheeling.
I'm trying to imagine some guy with big injectors,propane and a box set on 'max' tearing up a mountain side. Then I'd be worried about the case. #ad
#ad


-Mike

 

[Whitmore]

Dealers dont know jack about our rams,John spoke my peace exactly,my dealer is so off that when I took my ram back for my 1st complementary oil change,they had 2 dudes on it and they supposidly did one of there 1,000 point checks,well the dumg $hits did'nt even catch the fact that my fan was missing #ad
I dont know where they teach these guys this extra tallent but I hope I dont ever get any thing major wrong as I will be hessitant. Kevin

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2001 eth dee,qc,lwb,3. 55,camper and tow pkg,driftwood,cummins e-brake,jardine 4" exhaust,dz alum checker run boards,bed rail,tailgate protector,better built alum checker toolbox with home made fuel tank under box,"CUMN" licence plates and captain vol fire dept plate too

 

[John]

Mike, I was thinking along the lines of premature chain stretch that some may (or already) have experienced with their NV241 (non HD).

 

[BRobertson]

Kevin, did you take it to the dealer in Casper?? I always go to the Billings,MT dealer, Montana Dodge. They are good people, and seem to have at least a few Cummins aware folks around, including a couple of sales types. !!

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2001 QC4x4 eth dee slt+ 3. 54 blk agate leather Warn transformer mount Hella 4000s, Hella 530 backups, Optima redtops Toro liner, jacobs ebrake, wired front and rear for Warn 9000 winch, backup lights inset into rear bumper,bumper powder coated silver vein, bedliner on 6" of rocker,custom aluminum console with Garmin Colormap GPS and EGT built in,Horton fan,MagHytec diff cover

 

[apkole]

hmmmm, this should be very interesting!!! I just had my '99 in to the dealer for transmission service. Got the truck back and was inspecting the underside for other problems (it's been a busy winter around here) when I noticed that the underside of the fuel tank and the passenger side of the rear axle are spotted up with oil. Further checking found the skid pan under the transfer case with oil. It appears that the transfer case may have input and output shaft seal issues. Truck has 50k miles on it. Am dropping off for service on tuesday. This is a 241HD. The truck works hard pushing snow, but haven't ever seen this problem on my 91 with the NP205. Big question: Why didn't the dealer service tech spot this while he had the truck up on the hoist servicing the transmission??
I wish,----well, y'all know what we wish. When pigs fly, hmmm???

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1999 2500 4wd std cab, Rhino liner, Boss 8' front & custom 7' rear blade for snow removal
1991 W250 4WD 155k mi same as above for plow set up

 

[PAYCHECK]

Hey whitmore, i am here in casper. my license plate says 1 cumn,1 for natrona,cumn for ?. i have had pretty good luck with the cummins tech here in cas. at coliseum. e-mail me if you have any questions.

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01 2500HD Q. C. 4X4,241HD,SLT+, SB,3. 54,5spd,jacobs e-brake,tow pack,camper pack,all black,all leather,fully loaded,htd power mirrors,htd seats,full rhino lining bed and rocker panels,265/85r16 BFG ATs ko,nerf bars,everthing black,4'' Jardine,Westach boost & EGT gauge,

 

[Vaman]

Apkole... I have a really good transfer case story. It's posted here somewhere... let me know if you want more info because it might save you some time and aggravation.

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98. 5 2500, 24v, QC, 4x4, 4. 10 LSD, short bed, Line-X liner, tow package, camper suspension, Westin nerfs, camper shell, TST PowerMax3, 275 RVs, EGT/Boost pillar gauges... Love my Cummins, no love for Dodge

 

[John]

Apkole, I can't remember the last NV (New Venture Gear) or as they used to be known as... NP (New Process) ALUMINUM transfer case that didn't leak or at least weep from the tailshaft seal. I replaced the one in my NP208 transfer case at least three times before I got one that worked for any appreciable length of time. At a later date I replaced the NP208 with a brand new NP208 and it leaked as well. On another 4x4 I owned, the seal in the NP231 weeped/leaked a little as well. My NV241HD started weeping from the seal not long after I purchased it (new)... by the time I had my first transmission upgrade the weep had progressed enough that I changed the seal... it still weeps. And yes, I'm well aware of all the tricks to properly install seals.

That's one of the reasons I've said in the past, as good as the NV241HD is, I would have paid up to an extra 1k to get the NP205 (cast iron case, GEAR drive) transfer case. If Dodge offered it tomorrow on a new Ram mine would be instant trade bait.

 

[Bob V]

I checked this out when I bought my truck in '97. Near as I could tell a HD 241 is standard on the V10 & Cummins. The so called HD option is just a PTO provision. This is also stated on Dave Fritz's webpage http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/Ramspecs.htm#NV241 One other thing that makes me think we have the HD is that the fluid capasity stated in the owners manual is 6. 5 pints, same as the stated capasity for the 241HD on Dave's webpage.
Bob V.

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'97 CC 5spd 4. 10 5spd 315/75 16,Bushwacker,TST 280hp.

 

[klenger]

Dave Fritz, are you listening? What's your take on this? If this is true, it makes me feel good about not spending $100 extra for a PTO that I don't need.

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Ken Lenger
On Order - 2001. 5 2500 QC 4X4 SWB SLT, ETC/DDX 5 Speed, 3. 55 (no antispin), camper group, trailer folding mirrors, RBR CD/Radio, LT265/75R16E AT OWL tires, trailer tow group, Patroit Blue / Agate,
Replaces 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 which is for sale.
Trailite 21' Travel Trailer, ~4000 lbs loaded.

 

[John]

Sorry to dissapoint you Bob and Ken however, the NV241HD is ONLY standard equipment on the 3500s... optional at $100. extra on the 2500s.

 

[1tuffram]

Originally posted by Bob V:
I checked this out when I bought my truck in '97. Near as I could tell a HD 241 is standard on the V10 & Cummins. The so called HD option is just a PTO provision. This is also stated on Dave Fritz's webpage http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/Ramspecs.htm#NV241 One other thing that makes me think we have the HD is that the fluid capasity stated in the owners manual is 6. 5 pints, same as the stated capasity for the 241HD on Dave's webpage.
Bob V.

Bob,

A few years ago my NV241 needed to be rebuilt and I wanted this standard or HD issue verified because I also was told by a dealer even though I had no PTO cover, everthing inside was the same as the NV241HD. I explained to the transmission shop there are two versions of the NV241. I had read somewhere what the differences where (I think it was at the dealership in those big fat 3 ring binders in the showroom. I looked under RAM and found all sorts of tech info the salesmen where never aware of) If memory serves right besides the PTO gear the HD version has a larger chain, I believe larger bearings and can't remember if it had beefier shafts. The transmission shop had to look into this becasue they, like most dealers/salesmen, had never heard of two versions. Anyway they did some calling to find out the differences and I was told everything inside my transfer case was the standard duty NV241 stuff. This verified the label under the hood (NV241 STANDAR), which the dealers had told me was misprinted. One dealer told me the NV241HD was "standard" on the diesels. After 3yrs of gripping to dealers is was mislead on the tranfer case and I told the salesman I wanted "heavy-duty" everything when I ordered the truck got me nowhere. I told myself the next time I will not rely on a salesman to order things properly. I should have done my homework before ordering so I could have specified the NV241HD. I did not find out about the NV241HD option until it was too late to change my order at the factory and even then I was reassured by the dealership the literature I had read about an optional HD transfer case for the RAM 2500 diesel was a misprint, because "Dodge only builds the diesel with heavy duty components".

I can't explain the fluid capacity issue, because my transfer case holds the 3. 1 L/6. 5 pts speced for the NV241HD. The only thing I can think of is if the transmission shop could not find anything about a HD version except for the PTO gear being the distinguishing difference and simple said I had the standard NV241 since there was no PTO gear.

To be honest I think us TDR guys probably know the most about our RAMs. I have not been back to a dealer since the warranty expired on my '95, but at that time when I would mention there was two versions of the NV241 to the service dept they just looked at me like I was full of crap! They'd say "I've never heard of that". Maybe someone has informed them in the last few years. I suspect the problem is salesmen, etc are under the misconception the diesels and v-10's come with a NV241, which is "heavy-duty" compared to the NV231 in the 1/2 ton trucks. This is my guess as to why dealers are always feeding ya the line of diesel's come with the "heavy-duty" transfer case.

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'95 2500 SLT 5 speed 4x4

 

[Neal Cassady]

None of the local sales types knew anything about the 241HD when I was doing my research. I found out about all the good stuff over the phone, working with the truck sales dept. at Melton Dodge in OK. They told me they always order the 241HD on their dealer orders, wouldn't order a truck without it. Didn't buy my truck from Melton Sales but they treated better than most of the local dealers and know the product better than any dealer I worked with.

Dave D

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2001. 5 QC, LB, 4x4, Auto, 3. 54, Everything but Leather, Bright Silver Metallic, ARE K Series, Diprocal EGT, Boost and Autometer transmission Temp(sensor in the line) in an Autometer Dash Pod, ,Westin CPS Platinum Step Bars - Black on Stainless

 

[apkole]

Vaman, I would be very interested in your trans. case story if'n you can find it. John, thanks for the reply. When I went to order my '99, I tried mightily to get the 205, but was told no go. I had run across an individual at a fuel station who insisted that his truck (new style) had the 205 in it. I didn't crawl under to check it out. Was there ever a model year after 93 that the 205 could be ordered??
My concern with the weeping situation is that I've been told that transfer failures occur much of the time due to leaks which eventually drain the oil out. Somehow the absence of lubrication seems to impact the longevity of the components. Lack of owner due diligence in maintinance probably contributes to this. I did hear of one unit doing a grenade simulation at about 65 mph. Most of the failures I hear about are from owners who are in the snowplowing business. Most of us agree that the longevity of the drive train and sheet metal is directly related to owner or employee operation of the equipment.

 

[Dave Fritz]

FWIW: NV231, NV231HD, NV241, NV241D, NV241HD

All versions of the NV231 use 3 gears in the planetary set. NV231HD cases have larger shaft and bearing dimensions for V8 engines. The NV241 (STD duty) used behind many V8 engines is a NV231HD with six gears in the planetary reduction set.

The NV241D used behind the diesel and V10 has larger input shafts and bearings than the "standard duty" version used with V8 engines.

The NV241HD, which is available as an option, has a stronger case and wider drive chain to better withstand the shock of snow plow service, a PTO cover and drive gear, and an extra bearing to support the thrust to the main shaft created by a PTO adapter.

Clear as mud! #ad
Dave

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1994 2500HD 4X4 modified for off-road camping
2001 2500 ETH/DEE QC SB 4X4
Fritz's Dodge Ram Tech Page is now dodgeram.org

 

[Bob V]

Thanks Dave, That seems to make sence. I gess in a way we were all right about what case we have. One good thing is there isn't a lot of problems with either case

 

[John]

Thank you Dave!

apkole, unfortunately, the NP205 was never used beyond model year 1993. It would be easy to tell as all the ones I've seen have had slip-shaft rear driveshafts as opposed to slip-yoke rear driveshafts... easy to see without having to get down on all fours. However, my disclaimer is that I have only seen these in Chevy and GMC 4x4s... I'm not really sure what type of transfer case output arrangement Dodge utilized in the Cummins powered, first gen. Rams. At any rate, they are VERY easy to spot as they are cast iron (i. e. , much darker in color than any of aluminum cases used today).

One thing is for sure, those bad boy NP205s are beyond bombproof... they're NUKEPROOF! #ad
#ad

 

[SmokinJoe]

Originally posted by RezRockit:
anybody experienced any situation where the NV241HD performed more capably than NV241LD besides in pto applications or just being built more heavy duty?

I almost got my truck with the NV241LD because the dealer presented that option as shift on the fly option, not HD! Two or three weeks before build I had the district manager change it to HD. The discussion here on the TDR is what motivated me to do so.

I too would have paid lots more for a cast trans case with all gears as opposed to one with a chain...



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(2) Red 1990 Dodge Spirit RT 2. 2 Turbo cars
1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD Modified
2001. 5 2500 4x4 on order...