NV5600 Notchy shifting and brass in the oil?

[Gypsyman]

I had the OFE installed and changed the trans fluid with factory oil at the same time. The trans now shift notchy and I'm having a harder time getting into reverse, second at a stop, and on the two/three shift. Pedal travel is good and the fluid level is ok. Is it possible that the ferramic lining on the OFE is causing enough extra drag when not engaged (clutch in) and during shifting that the synchro's are taking slightly longer to match speed? I'm assuming that the clutch disc is taking longer to reduce speed and draging the input shaft along for the ride due to the more aggressive ferramic facing on one side. It's easier to shift when the trans is cold. Anyone else? Does Redline MTL help?



The other item is that when I was pouring the waste oil back into the empty containers I saw a small amount of brass flakes on the bottom of the drain pan. Looked like I had been panning for gold. I didn't see any of this at the 15k break-in change that I performed. Which items in this trans use brass/bronze?



Richard

 

[muddyduck]

gypsyman, mine was doing the same thing, especiallly in second at a stopsign. Will be picking it up from the shop on tuesay after getting second gear cluster and all of the syncro rings replaced. I would have the shop drive it and see if the same problem exists in yours. also, i was having problems with reverse too.

 

[GerryDrake]

Notchy ?

In keeping with "The only stupid question is the question not asked. "



What is "notchy" when discussing shifting characteristics.



Mine doesn't like to go into gear when I first start out, and occasionally I have to let the clutch out in neutral and let it spin to get it into gear even after I have driven it.



Thanks. . Gerry

 

[the whale dog]

When I installed my new clutch I found that the clutch pedal bushing was worn not allowing the clutch to disengage fully. causing the hard shift I say this because I to installed the conofe and love it

 

[jwilliams3]

Richard,

Change to Redline it should help overall.

I changed, helped alot. It did not fix all the issues though.

It buys you time before your synch's bite the dust.

I also had the filter installed that Geno's sells.



I also have notchy shifting and different behaviors when the fluid is cold.

One of my discs is ferramic as well.



4th is my notchy gear. 2nd is hard to get into from a dead stop.

Reverse is almost impossible, so I bump into 1st and then it will go right into

reverse without a fight.



Got to love these 6 speeds... . :-laf :-laf

 

[dan.poitras]

Gypsyman

Did you have your flywheel resurfaced "flat" as the stock flywheel is machined concave

Also it is recommended that they not be lathe cut but ground on a surface type grinder.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I seem to keep hearing contradictions as the the composition of the syncros used in the 5600 - some say the syncro facings are of a kevlar, or similar composition, as opposed to plain brass - yet a fair number of owners report seeing visual evidence of brass in drained lubw, even at low mileage - what gives?



In my own case, my 5600 shifts fine overall - only minor hesitation into low/reverse, and that is only ocassionally. I changed out my lube within 1000 miles of new - and also detected small microscopic evidence of brass suspended in the drained lube, just as with many other older transmission types that DO use plain all brass syncros. I now have well over 30,000 miles on the truck - no complaints on the transmission, even after the switch to the Cerametallic clutch - but this "brass in the lube" sorta puzzles me!

 

[Gypsyman]

"What is "notchy" when discussing shifting characteristics. "



You can feels the gears engage as if the synchro's weren't up to speed and it goes into gear much slower. It doesn't grind it's just much harder to get into gear. Didn't do this at all before the OFE.



"Did you have your flywheel resurfaced "flat" as the stock flywheel is machined concave? Also it is recommended that they not be lathe cut but ground on a surface type grinder. "



It was installed by Dynomite Diesel. They do a ton of these clutches and have only one machine shop that does thier flywheels just for this reason.



The truck shifted great before the OFE and I've never seen brass in the lube before. That's why I was wondering if anyone else had seen this change when going to the SBC clutches. Maybe the flywheel was done incorrectly or maybe the synchro's are just starting to have problems. I'm at kind of a loss on this one. I have less than 2k on the new clutch and I've just started noticing this in th last 1k miles.



Richard

 

[jwilliams3]

Richard,

It isn't the flywheel.

I have a completely new Flywheel with the DD clutch.

Same behavior.



I don't really worry about it.

Pay to play thing.



At least you dont have to worry about your hydraulics going out with a single

disc.

 

[Jeff_K]

I haven't heard of this being a problem with others that have aftermarket clutches. It sounds to me that you are not getting full disengagement of the clutch. It might jest be a break in thing. Also, you may be able to see if the clutch is fully disengaging by lifting up the rear end of the truck and seeing if the wheels turn while the clutch is fully depressed. Just a thought.

 

[Gypsyman]

I don't think it's disengaging completely either. When it doesn't want to go in second at a stop if I keep pulling to force it in the truck will actually move forward a couple of inches. I'm not worried about it, it's just annoying. I just wanted to make sure that it was just a side affect of a more aggressive clutch and not the beginning of transmission issues.



Richard

 

[Blakers]

yet a fair number of owners report seeing visual evidence of brass in drained lubw, even at low mileage - what gives?

Are you sure it's brass Gary? I have seen very very fine steel that wears from gear mating surfaces that looks like metal brass floating around in the drain oil. Check and see if a magnet effects it in your drained oil.



Blake

 

[Gypsyman]

None on my magnet but a fair amount of it settled in the bottom of the drain pan. None on the magnet and the yellow color says brass to me.



Richard

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Blake, it's brass - or at least some similar non-ferrous metal - not enough to be concerned about - especially if this was an "ordinary" transmission with normal syncros - the 6-speed in my '98 Camaro SS did the same thing. It's just sorta puzzling to see statements saying the syncros are fibre/kevlar faced, and STILL see evicence of brass in the lube - maybe it comes from other wear points on the syncros, or perhaps other bushings or components we're not aware of...

 

[JHawk]

CON OFE shifting probems too.

I have installed a CON OFE in a 97 NV4500 and a 99 NV4500 both 4x4 3500s. The 97 works perfect, and the 99 has trouble shifting into ANY gear at a stop light. I sent the clutch in and they sent it back. It worked fine for about a month and went back to the same problem. I am now converting to a NV5600 and sent the clutch to SBC again to have it modified to the 1 3/8" center. They are going to look into the problem of the clutch components. I also agree with you guys that the clutch is not releasing completely. I can shut the engine off and it shifts fine. It also shifts fine as long as you are moving. We will see what happens when the clutch comes back.

 

[Buffalo]

At a recent May Madness seminar given by Kevin Dinwiddie, a Tribologist and Certified Lubrication Specialist, with Lubrication Engineers, Inc. , we were told that at that time it was important to use the "factory gear oil" because, it had an additive in it that would preserve the "yellow metals" in the NV5600. He said that He would love to be able to sell us a gear oil but, none of their's had the proper additive and that as far as He knew, the Mopar product was the only one that did. That information was given to us at the 2002 May Madness. Since then, other products have come on the market that meet the Mopar specs. Penzoil Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid Stock # 3501, being one of them. I used the Penzoil prod. at 15000 miles. Now have 30000 miles. My NV5600 has always been a little hard to get into first and second gears. Just takes a second, or so of hesitation before it slides into gear. One of the explanations i've read on this site is that the gear train is huge and takes awhile to slow down before smooth engagement will occur. I know some of You are using aftermarket gear oils with success. It seems like more of You are having good luck with the Redline prod. I am, certainly, not an expert in gear oils. Just interested in the subject and trying to find out what works best. Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Gypsyman]

I'm assuming this has to be an SBC issue because the trans shifted like glass before the install. Easy into second at a stop, easy into reverse and no issues upshifting.



Pay to play I guess but this is not "just like stock" as some have stated. I could care less about the grabbiness just the hard shifting.



No biggie because it flat holds the power and I don't drag race, just tow heavy.



Richard

 

[Big P]

I'm running a Southbend con fe that "had" the same hard to get into gear problem. Although full engagement was at the middle to top of pedal travel it still wouldn't fully release. A few HARD 3rd gear launches fixed it. :-laf

 

[Gypsyman]

Funny thing. After towing heavy mine is cool for about a week and then it goes back to being a b!tch to get in gear. I'm wondering if the tighter tolerancer of the SBC hub spline are not allowing the disc to ride away from the flywheel as easily as the stocker. I know I don't have the "rattles" that the stocker had when lugging the engine or backing up. I'll bet the HARD launches loosened the hub splines up just a hair. :-laf



Richard