Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) NV5600 parts

[SRehberg]

I read all the threads I could find about converting from a NV4500 to a NV5600. The question I have is the comments I've seen about parts. I wouldn't want to spend the money for the conversion then find down the road the parts are unavailable. Any thoughts?

 

[PVanderlugt]

You can always put in a G56, do a search for that one, I believe there have been several members that did that one. You can get a brand new g56 cheaper than a rebuild 5600 w/o core
Pete

 

[SRehberg]

Thanks Pete. I read the threads on the G56 and it appears a body lift is required or a 1" drop in the trans cross member. I would have to get the cross member either way for my '96 so a cut is no big deal. From the threads about the NV5600, I'm surprised the parts are so scarce for no older than it is. It looks like the next conversions will be from a NV5600 to a G56.

 

[SRath]

Is the jury in yet on the strength, reliablity, shifting characteristics, etc. of the G56? Is it an acceptable or equal replacement for the NV5600, or just what DC could get to replace the NV5600 the fastest and cheapest when GM gutted New Venture?

 

[SRehberg]

I see on the Quad 4X4 site that a note was made about the possibility of aftermarket hard parts becoming available from an overseas mfg. (probably read China here). Has anyone seen anything to confirm hard parts are indeed available or is it just better to bypass the NV5600 and go straight to the G56? I sure don't want to get the NV5600 if gears and shafts are no longer available. Thanks

 

[FYarcho]

Keep me updated as to what you do. I am in a delema right now. My nv5600 is going down the toilet. I am just not sure which direction to go with it. I can get a reman for anywhere from 3-4000 with core. But I am just real hard pressed to spend that kind of money with only a one year warranty. I am starting to look at other possibilities, such as a g56, or some other type of conversion where parts and replacments aren't so much.

 

[PVanderlugt]

The thing is by now they have manufactured the G56 almost as long as the nv5600, there are probably more g56 out there than nv5600, and it doesn't look like they are going to stop making them in the near future. I can't speak from experience since I have an auto, but I am looking into conversion and have been doing a lot of reading and research on this. Salvage yard owners are very much aware that the nv5600 is in short supply and are pricing accordingly. Should be able to pick up a used g56 for around $2k or so, can get a brand new one with the new lower overdrive (post 01-07) for a little over $3k You will need to get the driveshafts lengthened/shortened I have yet to see any post about any g56 failures that were not a fluke or major abuse, there does not appear to be any systematic weak points at this time. Have not seen one post with "my g56 shifts lousy", lots of those with the nv5600 As you probably know weak points for the nv5600 seem to be the syncro's, availability of certain parts (shafts) and it looks like it needs to be rebuild by somebody that really knows what they are doing(no backyard overhaul) seen a lot of post with problems with recently rebuild units appears to be tollerance issues.
thanks Pete

 

[Don Tanklage]

if you are gonna spend that kind of cash you may want to consider the route that i took...



couldnt be happier



don



ps - its gots lotsa gears this way

 

[SRehberg]

PVanderlught, good points about the G56 vs the NV5600. I was looking at a used NV5600 that was supposedly rebuilt but as you pointed out, unless the person knows these transmissions, I could be buying problems. The trans was through a private party so no warranty obviously. For $3000 it's a expensive gamble. That being said, I think the install for a NV5600 maybe easier than the G56 for a early second gen truck.



I already own a GV OD and not to offend anyone, but in my opinion I can't wait to get rid of it. It was on the truck when I bought it and I find it very hard on the drivetrain engaging/disengaging. Yes, I try to rpm match etc plus the times in a panic situation if you forget to turn it off while screeching to a halt, it comes out with a "bang" equivalent to being rear-ended. An exhaust brake is a no-no with the unit as well. It might be great for some but I haven't found it to be the answer. Just my 2cts.

 

[CTD12V]

Should be able to pick up a used g56 for around $2k or so, can get a brand new one with the new lower overdrive (post 01-07) for a little over $3k.

Hi Pete,



Can you elaborate on that? Do you mean they have revised the 6th gear to a taller ratio???? Oh please, please say yes . . . :-laf



Thanks,



Jeff

 

[PVanderlugt]

YES.

Looks like after 12-06 DC put a revised 6th gear in the G56.
Do a search on it, there have been several post on this. looks like 0. 74 vs 0. 79. something with AD vs AE in the part number.
With a 3. 55 rear this would make a very nice combo.
looks like 65 mph would be about 1800 rpm
I am not smart enough to post a link, but go to Klenger.net, look under RAM and then under gear calculator, he has a adjustable gear and speed calculator that lets you see various rpm and speeds with the different gear/axle combo's Very nice.
There is a guy that had a 4500 and did the conversion, do a search for it, he was pretty happy with it not to many modifications beside driveshafts and x-member and did it in a weekend. Auto conversion will be a little more involved, but not to bad I think.
Pete

 

[Dieseldemon]

I have done a bunch of auto to 5spd and auto to 6spd and 5spd to 6spd all with the NV4500 and NV5600 had an 06 in last week for a fluid change G56 and when I removed the drain plug out fell a hand full of bearings and small springs and brg pieces of the brg cage truck had only 25000 miles on it I have also heard that they have had this problem for a while.

 

[SRehberg]

Do any of them hold up? Back to the original question, are the parts available for the NV5600, especially the hard parts? Thanks

 

[GAmes]

Call Standard Transmission or Blumenthals and ask them. About a year ago I was talking to the GM of ST and at that time cores and parts were in very short supply. He wouldn't sell a rebuild without a core replacement. For that reason the price of a conversion has risen dramatically. As for SRath's cheap shot at General Motors, it was DC that owned and sold New Venture.



New Venture Gear Homepage

 

[SRehberg]

I was going to call several of the larger transmission rebuilder's and get their input but it sounds like the parts/transmissions are still a problem. I spoke to Dan at Quad 4X4 and he basically said due to the parts not being available, the NV5600 isn't a good idea right now. He said some rebuilders are reinstalling used synchro's due to the lack of availability.



Late note: I just got off the phone with Std. Transmission and Gear. They told me the parts that are available will be expensive and transmissions w/o cores are not available. I asked about the future. I was told the parts would be even more scarce and they doubted if the parts would be more available, if ever. In other words the situation for the NV5600 looks bleak unless someone starts mfg parts down the road.



Thanks for all the replies.

 

[SRath]

"As for SRath's cheap shot at General Motors, it was DC that owned and sold New Venture. "



Your link proves me wrong. That is not how I understood it. Both companies use the NV4500 and DC makes not one other part of the Cummins Dodge drivetrain except the automatic transmission. They outsource hugely. GM seldom does. Why would DC leave themselves legally liable to supply parts they cannot for 10 years?



I'm a Chevy man born and bred. But Chevy stopped making good trucks in the late 80's (IMHO) and doesn't have the Cummins contract. So here I am.



Even if I was wrong, how does making a mistake automatically qualify as a "cheap shot"? May you be judged so harshly yourself someday, GAmes...

 

[Don Tanklage]

"a chevy man, thru and thru"



ewww



yuck



bet you have a mustache too...

 

[SRath]

:-laf A goatee, actually, Don! And I'll never part with it, my K30, or my '69 Camaro! The K30 is waiting for something to happen to my dodge and will make a nice home for the Cummins!



Here's what quad4x4 says currently:



We stock Timken supplied bearing kits for all NV5600 transmissions and new Genuine NVG/MTM 14 piece synchronizer kits plus some small parts for 2001½-2005 NV5600 transmissions. The hard parts situation for NV5600 transmissions is terrible. After NV5600 production ceased in January of 2005, MTM pretty much stopped making parts for them. By December of 2005, most new parts were no longer available from any source. As of January, 2006 we are completely out of stock on all NV5600 gears and shafts. There is word that Dodge will be getting some new NV5600 gears starting in February of 2006 and we know of at least two aftermarket suppliers that intend to produce NV5600 components overseas, so hopefully, the NV5600 parts situation will improve throughout 2006.



edit: (Does "aftermarket suppliers" mean "Chinese". . ?)



ewww



yuck

 

[SRehberg]

I saw the information you posted, on the Quad 4X4 site but Dan's position wasn't favorable towards the NV5600. It would be great if someone picked up the parts mfg for the trans and I would guess it to be in China. Lets hope it happens as long as the quality control is there.



On another note, regarding the transplanting of a G56 into a second gen truck, there was a post about installing the trans w/o a body lift. It was accomplished by lowering the trans cross member 1". Can I find it again? No. Any ideas where that post is, as I want to print up the thread for reference. Thanks.

 

[SRath]

It's really hard to do a search on 3-character subjects like "G56", isn't it? Same with "271". Let me know if you figure out how to.



I have a complete, low mile, NV5600 conversion sitting in my shop waiting for installation. I am committed financially to finishing it. I am only missing the t-case shifter mount, rod, and speedo harness extension. It may be a bad idea, but I am thousands into it now, and it took two years to get this far.



I figure it has to last at least as long as my 5th gear loser NV4500, which is probably on borrowed time with just the nut fix, judging from all the metal that was floating around in it. That will be another 150K miles. That gives me time (at least ten years) to find spare NV5600 parts or to figure out what the next replacement will be should the Dodge last that long.



Maybe that's being optimistic, but I can always also have quad4x4 rebuild my 4500 with all the good stuff if I think I might one day need it again. So I do have options.



This will rile some folks for some reason (it never fails), but I'm probably a little easier on manual transmission's and clutches than many guys since I drive a semi for a living and stirring gears is simply "what I do". Even plowing snow for many years has not worn my stock original Dodge clutch out.



Other guys are better with wrenches or computers or rockets or whatever. Driving 80,000 pound diesels with manual transmission's is my thing and has been for a quarter of a century. Much of it has been city driving, too, and that is real hard on the left leg, and everything it controls, when you have that kind of weight and 10 or 13 gears. I've never trashed a transmission or a clutch yet in well over 2 1/2 million logged miles.



My only point here is: I have confidence that, barring a lemon, I can milk every possible mile out of the NV5600 I bought and the South Bend Clutch, too. If the transmission were a lemon, it would have shown it by the time the donor truck was wrecked at 32K miles. That's my theory anyway. Time will tell. Until then, I'm not going to borrow trouble I don't have or need.



If I were to buy my 6-speed tomorrow, I would probably still buy the NV5600 given the same cost as the G56. I like American made stuff.



One last thought, with tremendous respect to Dan: "Dan's position wasn't favorable towards the NV5600"

His position was extremely favorable when he could buy and sell and fix them readily. He does not say it is a bad transmission. He says the parts support is bad. Two very different things. There is little business to be done on them now, so he must find an alternative that works and keeps him in business (meaning it keeps his customers happy). He has done that with the best NV4500 fix out there (IMHO). He also has a responsibility he takes seriously to warn every potential customer of the hard facts, which he has done. Now, that said, he is not saying everyone with an NV5600, whether stock or converted, will one day regret it. He just wants everyone to know his hands are now tied just like everyone elses when it comes to providing full service on NV5600's.



One last, last thing: As a 60's and 70's muscle car afficiondo, I don't want anything other than a Muncie 4-speed in my '69 Camaro. Preferably the M22 rockcrusher it has. I do not worry in the least about finding parts for this long-out-of-production transmission. There are now all the parts you will ever need to build or rebuild any old Muncie 4-speed being made by several companies. Some USA, some foreign (and an Italian company makes some of the best). No chinese. You can actually build an M22 from scratch or order it complete, and it will be better than the original! It just won't score "show points" if you use the aftermarket cases. In ten years, the same may well be true for what may turn out to be the toughest, best 6-speed truck transmission ever made, the NV5600. Have some hope!