Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) NV5600 parts

[SRehberg]

SRath, I agree with everything you said. Dan wasn't saying he didn't like NV5600's, just as you pointed out, rather the parts support wasn't there to make them desireable. If and when the parts become available, the NV5600 may indeed be a great trans to own. I am really on the fence with this one as the NV5600 would be so much easier to install vs. the G56 and has been proven time and again.



I can buy the complete conversion for $3k (private party) but the trans is out of state so it is buying sight unseen. That part unnerves me some. Supposedly it was overhauled by Standard Trans. and inspected to make sure it was sound. For that kind of money I get nervous buying that way.



You're right about the search feature, it can be frustrating. I finally found it and it was a fairly recent thread.



Thanks

 

[SRath]

I definitely see your point about being leery of a "rebuilt" transmission. This post had some worthwhile comments about the potentially questionable quality of some rebuilds. And $3K is big bucks.



I wonder if there are any other members who have had an NV5600 rebuilt by Standard? Did the seller mention any kind of warranty? The fact it was rebuilt begs the question "why?". And "how well?". And "what exactly was replaced?" Answers you'll likely never know, except the "how well?" if you buy it.



Mine was from a salvage yard @ 100 miles away. It took 4 phone calls to locate. I got the flywheel and throwout bearing, etc with it (they cut the shifter handle and crossmember to remove it!!#@$%!). The flywheel is absolutely mint. I took that as a small but good indication it wasn't abused. The truck had very low miles. Everything turned and shifted OK. They also gave me a 90 day money-back warranty, which did me little good since I was a long way from installing it, but it did speak well of their confidence in it since they didn't know that. I paid $2K for it. They were also willing to give me $200 back for my NV4500 as a core. I declined politely. I did not know if I needed a different block adapter, so I snagged one for $50 on ebay. Another $12 got me the starter spacer.



I bought a darned-near-new stock LUK clutch (still has clear print on the disc face and virgin machining marks on the p. plate) for $180 shipped from a guy who immediately bombed his new truck after buying it and upgraded to a SBC. Later, I came across a complete, brand new SBC OFE kit for $500 and upgraded myself (anyone want the LUK?). The crossmember cost me $75 with shipping. After buying the wrong (G56) shifter handle by mistake, I came up with the right one with knob for $20 (anybody need a G56 shifter handle & knob?). A complete bolt kit was pricey at $34, but saved alot of guesswork and searching.



So I've done OK on the parts prices, I think, but it all adds up and takes time. CumminsPower98 installed a drain plug when he did his conversion, and I want to try that, too. I also plan to upgrade from the good SBC pilot bearing to the even better one that Dan offers as well the external filters.



A shifter relocation bracket for the t-case, an extended shifter rod (which I can just make), a new transmission mount and mount plate, and a wiring extension harness I think will finish the list. I have no idea what those items will cost. Then I still have to pay for driveshaft lengthening & shortening and many quarts of expensive Castrol Syntorque oil. Does it ever end?



If all of that (minus the oil and driveshaft mods) is what your seller says is a "complete" kit, the 3K, especially if it has a SBC clutch, is a reasonable deal. It's still a lot of money... But so is the cost of rebuilding an automatic or having the NV4500 rebuilt and upgraded right. Tough decision, my friend.



(Please post the link to the G56 info you relocated)

 

[GAmes]

"As for SRath's cheap shot at General Motors, it was DC that owned and sold New Venture. "



Even if I was wrong, how does making a mistake automatically qualify as a "cheap shot"?

Maybe it's just me, but making a derogatory remark about someone without supporting facts "when GM gutted New Venture?", and knowing that they wouldn't respond, seems like a cheap shot to me, and I'm not a "Chevy man".

 

[SRath]

This ends in 10 minutes, but it will give you something to compare to:



eBay Motors: 01 Dodge Cummins NV5600 6pd 4x4 Trans Conversion (item 250167132878 end time Sep-26-07 18:44:02 PDT)



GAmes: Yup, Its just you, but "whatever", Mr. Perfect

 

[SRehberg]

SRath, I don't know how to do a "link" but the original post was dated 6-4-07 in this forum. The heading was "G56 conversion complete. " The poster, was Kkunz, so I hope that helps.



The trans I had inquired about may be a good one, I don't know or even how to tell if I was there in person. I could spin it or look for missing teeth but until a load was put on it I wouldn't know. There's no warranty as it's a private party that has it. I don't know why it was overhauled originally so it is something I could check on but w/o seeing it, I can't see much point. I'd use an escrow company to make sure I didn't get ripped off but who could check the trans?



Thanks for the ebay link, it gives a reference. Any ideas on a long distance buy?

 

[SRath]

I'm not real sure what you're asking, but I'm guessing it might be how to tell if you're getting what he says, which I really don't know how to answer, or how to keep from falling victim to possible outright fraud.



How far away is it and how difficult and/or expensive would it be to go see it and/or pick it up in person? That would absolutely be a better way to buy. Cash in hand and eyes and hands on. Has the guy sent you any photos of the transmission or copies of the rebuild receipt? Beware of generic "stock" photos. Home and work phone numbers provided (not just cell phones)?

Verifiable street address?



Do you have a friend or relative anywhere nearby that could act on your behalf and in person? I'll bet, if nothing else, that there just might be a respectable and helpful TDR member nearby who could at least verify the transmission exists and the deal is legit... You might even get lucky and find one who is a whiz with NV5600's. It might even be worth paying a nominal fee or fuel money for that kind of peace of mind.



Transmission shops ship and receive transmissions all the time. Maybe you could arrange to have one local to him (find one using online Yellow Pages for example) look the transmission over and maybe even arrange shipping for you. They are very experienced at it and will already have a business acount with at least one reputable LTL carrier. Just an idea... Unfortunately, it will probably add something to the price you pay.



You definitely want to talk on the phone and get some real info about the guy and the transmission. You need a hard confirmed physical address. No PO Boxes. No wire transfers to what he claims is an escrow account or any other account he arranges NO MATTER WHAT!!



My sister and her husband got burned for over $8K on an ebay fraudulent/nonexistant Chevy pickup that way. It is wise to use an escrow service, but YOU choose it and set it up. I don't know much about that, though. Talk to your banker; he should have some idea how to safely do it. Maybe the shipping company can offer some assistance. They could possibly hold the money until the item is in their possession. They will want paid up front anyway.



Shipping will be high. That puppy weighs a bunch! 500 lbs or so I think. Will he drop it off at a LTL shipping company or will you need to arrange pickup? If so, is it from a business location and with or without a loading dock? It all matters price-wise. Will he securely band it to a pallet or crate it? Insurance is an absolute must. Lots of variables, and I cannot stress enough to "know" the guy as best you can and verify everything before sending a dime anywhere. You control the money until the transmission arrives or at least is shipped.



If he lives in a small town, I would call the local police department and explain the deal you are doing and ask if they are familiar in any way with the person or the address he gives you or if it is even a real address. They won't give you personal info most likely, but should be able to confirm some basics. If he has a bad local reputation for any reason, they will know it.



I may be trusting, but there are some tremendous scam artists out there, and I know my limit for that trust. It's well under $3,000.



I hope I haven't scared you away from the deal, but I hope you don't get ripped off, either. There definitely is risk in such a deal. Maybe some of the other guys have some good input on buying a pig-in-poke long distance from a stranger?



Scott

 

[FYarcho]

Ok well I am in a dilema now, with all this talk I am really confused about what to do. I need to replace my nv5600 because of a bearing. Now I am sure I can get a reman somewhere. But my dilema is should I spend the money on that or should I look at doing a G56 conversion. AHHHHH!!!! I don't know what do do someone help me!!!!!

 

[Dieseldemon]

Why don't you just get the bearing and replace it Dodge is selling the reman NV5600 trans pricey but they have it. They have to supply replacement parts for 10 yrs after the vehicle was released for production.

 

[CTD12V]

YES.



Looks like after 12-06 DC put a revised 6th gear in the G56.

Do a search on it, there have been several post on this. looks like 0. 74 vs 0. 79. something with AD vs AE in the part number.

With a 3. 55 rear this would make a very nice combo.

looks like 65 mph would be about 1800 rpm

I am not smart enough to post a link, but go to Klenger.net, look under RAM and then under gear calculator, he has a adjustable gear and speed calculator that lets you see various rpm and speeds with the different gear/axle combo's Very nice.

There is a guy that had a 4500 and did the conversion, do a search for it, he was pretty happy with it not to many modifications beside driveshafts and x-member and did it in a weekend. Auto conversion will be a little more involved, but not to bad I think.

Pete

Sweet! Thanks for the info, Pete.



Sorry to hijack your thread, SRehburg -- Good luck with the NV5600 conversion!



CTD12V

 

[SRehberg]

All good tips on as safe a buy as possible. Unfortunately the trans etc is about 1500 miles (guessing) away, so not an easy drive. I haven't pursued the trans that seriously due to the distance and reluctance to buy sight unseen. I have his phone number and I'm sure I could get pictures, even possibly a copy of the rebuild receipt. If I did go ahead eventually with the buy, it would definitely be an escrow company of my chosing. Like you said, my trust is a lot less than $3000. I personally wouldn't rip anyone off but there are lots of people without any values at all.

The shipping tips about crating/banding is well taken, I hadn't thought about much. Again it would add to the cost. In the long run I might just be money ahead to find something within a couple hundred mile radius I could drive to.



The downside is the fact the trans (wherever) is no better than the rebuilder so perhaps a good used one that hasn't been rebuilt would be a better bet. A private party trans may look good but perhaps the bearings are rough or clearances to loose and that would be next to impossible to determine on the floor.



Thank you for the information.

 

[SRath]

FYarcho, Do you know which bearing and why it failed? I would be interested to know what to watch out for.



As Dan says on his website, many small parts are still available. If that is all you need, I would think the easiest thing to get would be bearings. If you have the old one, I'll bet you could go to a bearing supply store and buy it. Most things are engineered to use already-existing, standard types and sizes of bearings. You would be amazed how easily you can buy them. Seals, too.



For example, If I ever get my hands on an old 2500 4x4 front hub assembly, I would like to take it apart and have Berry Bearing or Motion Industries, two of several local bearing suppliers, cross reference the bearings and seals from those supposedly unrebuildable hubs.

 

[SRehberg]

Not to beat this to death, but I was talking to a transmission shop about the NV5600. I was told there is a bearing in the front that lacks lube oil so it ruins the bellhousing to the tune of $800-$900 if it can be found. Any truth to this? Is there a "fix" for the lack of lube?



Thanks

 

[SRath]

The info I remember about lube came from the quad4x4 site. Use ONLY Castrol Syntorque due to carbon fiber synchros and you should run 1 extra quart.



Maybe that takes care of the problem you are talking about?

 

[SRehberg]

I have heard there was a bearing in the NV5600 that tends to run lean on lube but until I spoke to the transmission shop, I had no idea where it was located.

I'm really having difficulty making the decision whether to go NV5600 or try the G56. I think the NV is the easier one of the two to install.



Thanks for the help, I'm trying to learn as much about these transmissions as possible.

 

[FYarcho]

I don't know which bearing has failed yet. I have been on the phone today trying to track down a reman. I did speak to a rebuilder in Oregon. He told me that from his experience it is most likely the input shat bearing. From what he has seen is that the bearing race which goes into the alluminum bell housing after a while will spin the race. Which will result in a failure of the bearing. He says thay can repair it, but without looking at it and based soley on what I was describing to him as to what it was doing. As soon as I can get the money together I will be pulling it out and sending it in for a rebuild.



Also one guy I talked to told me that since my trans was the older version with the smaller input shaft he was unable to get parts for that model any more, and my only option was to have that one rebuilt. Otherwise he could sell me the newer version with the bigger shaft and apparently different gears. I didn't go into it with him too much as to what the differences were. But if I went that route I would have to change my clutch and possibly the flywheel.



Right now I am in a money crunch I really won't know much more until I get the time to pull it out and send it to a rebuilder.

 

[SRehberg]

FYarcho, thanks for the reply about the bearing. You described the problem exactly. I guess the lack of lubrication (?)causes the bearing to bind up causing the spinning in its bore, requiring replacement. It sounds like the rebuilder you spoke to thinks the aluminum bore gets loose, so I wonder what exactly happens. Did the rebuilder give any hint as to what if anything can be done to prevent that from reoccuring? I am just down the hill from you, (Stockton). Is there someone in Oregon who is good with the NV5600's?

I sure hope you can fix the trans w/o to much of a problem.



Thanks

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

A couple of years ago I was considering doing an NV5600 conversion on my truck. I picked one up at auction, but sold it a year later to fund a tractor project (priorities). Last Friday I picked up another one in a motorcycle trade with an Automotive Student, but it is partially disassembled. I was going to build it until I started looking at the special tool list required to assemble it the right way. EEEK!

It sounds like parts are getting scarce for these now. Maybe I could help someone if I parted it out, and use the money towards HD shafts for my Auto trans. I've built plenty of those. Any idea what it might be worth in pieces?

Joe

 

[jp8819]

Dont know for a fact yet but heard bulmenthals is supplying aftermarket parts for the 5600 now. Someone might can confirm this.

 

[FYarcho]

Ok I did do some calling around and this is what I was told by several rebuilders including Blumenthals. Aparently there are two versions of this trans. The earlier version like mine with the smaller input shaft. Parts are no longer available. The later version with the larger input shaft aprently parts are redily available for. Now I had two options, one I could send my transmission and have them rebuild it. If it was just a bearing, no problem, they would just replace the bearings and send it back. If there were hard parts damaged then they could rebuild it but they would have to convert all the parts over to the later version. Which would also mean a new clutch, because of the larger input shaft. Or I could send mine in as a core and get a reman with the larger input shaft. All of the options resulted in price tags from between 2500 to rebuild with a bearing kit to 4500 for a complete reman trans. Now what I have chosen to do is this. I have already removed the trans from the truck. (I dont suggest this unless you are mechanicailly enclined, and have a heavy duty trans jack, because this thing is HEAVY!!!) I brought it to work where I have access to a full shop. I am going to attempt to replace the bearings myself. If during this evolution It appears that I can't do that then I will just put it back together and send it in for a core and get a reman.



I will post photos of the process I went through from begining to end for the bearing replacement when I am done, including what I found wrong. I am not going to do it for the removal and install from the truck simply because if you dont feel competent to do that job you should not even attempt to pull aprt the trans.



So far as of today I just have the tail adapter off an exposted the rear gears. I did find some very fine metal fragmants in the oil. But so far no obvious damage to the bearings. I will keep updated as time goes on.



Also by the way If I just end up replacing the bearings the parts will be about 175-200 dollars. With no labor cost with me doing the work, other than the beer I will have to buy for someone to help put the trans back in. So I am crossing my fingers and hoping this works out. I do have the service manual so I am not doing this totally blind.

 

[FYarcho]

SRehberg Regarding your question I did find a rebuilder in Portland



All Transmission Parts



No they advertise they only sell wholesale. But when I called them I told them I was a shop I can't remember exactly what the price was for a reman but I was thinking it was around 2900 dolllars. But don't hold me to that, and that was also with a good core. This place gave me the best information about what was wrong with mine. So it seems they do alot of rebuilds if you want to go that route. I got the info on this place from my local trans shop who told me they would not even try to do bearings or a rebuld they would just get me a reman from this place.