Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) NV5600 problem

[TboneMan]

NV5600 problem - Now it is a 911

I started a thread a few weeks ago but I didn't get many responses. So I thought I'd try again.



Here's what's happening:



On a intermittent basis, when I lift my foot up after having the clutch pedal depressed, the truck wants to surge. Like I'm giving it a lot of go pedal, but I'm not. This only seem to happen when starting from a complete stop.



After I fully release the clutch pedal, it seems to rise slowly to the full "up" position.



I am also getting occasional grinding when shifting into reverse.



The truck has about 78,000 miles on it (5000 are towing miles) and completely stock (except gages). transmission fluid was changed (MOPAR fluid) 4000 miles ago.

 

[bighammer]

You mean the engine revs up when you lift the clutch? In gear or neutral?

 

[TboneMan]

No the engine doesn't rev up.



As we all know with the low end torque these things have, unless you're under a load, you can start from a stop basically at idle (no or little go pedal while releasing the clutch).



The engine is still idling (800 rpms) but as soon as I start to lift up on the clutch, the truck feels like it wants launch into space. If I'm in a situation where I can continue the motion, I do. That is when I notice that the clutch pedal seems to rise to the normal up position slowly.



I admit, I have driven manuals for 20 years, and I don't know all of the mechanics behide what is going on so I can't talk in technical terms, but I know this is not right.



My worry is that I will experience one of the "surges" in a parking lot, and I won't be able to control it and I will hit something or someone.

 

[bighammer]

OK, maybe the engine doesn't really rev up, but it sounds like you are feeling the governor system (electronic on yours) sensing the load and reacting with more fuel to maintain the RPMs. My 03 does the same kind of surging thing you describe. With just a very light touch of the go pedal, it sometimes will run up to 2k.

 

[Beast2B]

grabbing...?

Is it more like the clutch is grabbing once you start to release the pedal? The RPM doesn't "surge", but the truck lunges almost like you popped the clutch (like we all did in Dad's truck when he wasn't looking!)

If that is a more apt description, it sounds like the throw out bearing in not smooth on the input shaft of the trans. Any transmission or clutch work recently? I haven't changed mine yet, but I hear that the amount of lube on the input shaft is fairly specific... in technical terms not too much, but not too little either!

Good luck.

 

[TboneMan]

The only thing I have done is change the fluid. I will double check the levels this weekend.



As for the ECM governing the flow of fuel at idle, I played with the truck when I first got it (Nov 2000), running through the gears at idle. I have experienced what this thing can do (it was pretty cool).



I'll try to keep an eye on the tach. this weekend to see if I can determine what the egine is doing.

 

[TboneMan]

problem still persists

Ok.



I took off the fill nut and fluid began flowing. This is the same level I filled it to originally.



I had an extra 8 oz of mopar transmission fluid left in one of the bottles, so I put the truck sideways on a hill and added the rest of the fluid (someone on another tread mentioned jacking the truck to get the last few ounces, I figured parking on a hill would be easier, and it was).



I am still grinding into reverse when the transmission is at full operating temps.



What next. Should I dump this fluid (it has about 5000 miles on it), and try another fluid brand (again I used OEM). or should I take it somewhere to have it looked at?



If I take it someplace should I go to the dealer or a transmission shop?

 

[Mschevey]

Just a few things to look at.



1 Make sure there is fluid for the slave cylinder. (the little clearish bottle on the firewall. )



2 Could be the through out bearing, or pilot bearing. (the clutch can feel like it is grabbing if one of these is worn out, especially the through out bearing.



I don't claim to know much but these are the things that sprang to mind.



Mike Schevey

 

[jlhartak]

Do this test: with transmission in neutral and foot off clutch pedal, push pedal to floor, wait a few seconds (3-4) then shift into reverse if gears grind shift back into neutral and still holding pedal down shift back into reverse; if it still grinds you definitely have a clutch problem and not a transmission problem! The NV5600 has big gears and bearings, it takes a while for the gears to spin down after the clutch is released.

 

[5thram]

Might be water or some other contaminant in your hydraulic clutch. Been squirtin' the dust out of your engine compartment? The trick for the gear grinding is to pop it into first before shifting to reverse...

 

[TboneMan]

Well... jlhartak's trick seems to work. I hold the clutch in for a few seconds and no grind.



The question is, I didn't have this problem prior to the fluid change and some extended towing, I there something going on in there?



I'm thinking of changing the fluid again just because of the amount of grinding that has occurred. I don't want too much metal floating around in there.



Maybe the transmission oil filter from Genos? FastCoollers? Different oil?

 

[CoastyAV8R]

My 2001 ETH does the same thing and has since day 1. Here is my take on it. With the clutch pushed in, the transmission and motor are physically pretty much seperate entities. However when you let the clutch, even in neutral, your turning gears, shafts, whatever, in the transmission. The surge is the motor taking up the parasitic load of the transmission. That's my train of thought on the matter. Truck shifts fine, no noise and I just changed the transmission fluid 1,000 miles ago with nothing unusual found. Take this for what it's worth, it's just my take

 

[CRSmith]

I don't know how serious your surge is. My 2001. 5 has always had a surge when starting from a stop. It's just the computer not letting you bog down/stall the motor by automatically giving it a little fuel.



If you do change the oil again, and go with something other than OEM, and there ends up being something wrong with your transmission, and it's still under warranty, they will void the warranty based on wrong fluid type.

 

[Coyote556]

definately sounds like clutch or throwout bearing problems to me. my . 02.

 

[TboneMan]

OK



It appears as though the general consensus is that it is the throwout bearing (whatever that is) or the clutch.



With over 78,000 mile the transmission is out of warranty.



So...



Should I take it to a transmission shop? I have never used any of the locals but I imagine I could ask around to find out who is the best.



Or, should I go to the dealer? I trust the dealer (they have serviced all three vehicles I've bought there).





If it is the throwout bearing does it make sense to replace the clutch while the transmission is off?

 

[TboneMan]

Call 911...Call 911

OK ladies and gentleman, new symptom for my sick NV5600:



I hauled some mulch today, 2yrds the first trip, 1 yard the second. Air temperature is about 90f.



I go to back up a hill to unload the mulch next to the house and my rear wheels spin. OK I put it in 4H. I back up the hill a few feet and I push the clutch in to stop but I DON"T STOP!!!!!



Clutch is in, foot on the brake and I can not get the truck out of reverse. If I let off the brake and leave the clutch down, I start moving.



I had to shut the truck off in order to get it out of reverse!



Needless to say I could smell burning clutch when I got out of the truck.



I finished my work with no other incidents, but I need to do something about this.



Please advise based upon the previous posts.



Thanks

 

[jlhartak]

If the hydraulic clutch master cyl. , fluid line and slave cyl are not leaking or low on fluid and you have checked the clutch pedal linkage for play, etc. you definitely have a clutch problem. You'll have to tear it down to find out if it's the input shaft pilot bearing, the throw out bearing or the throw out bearing fork. Something is keeping the clutch from releasing. I'm putting my . 02 on the input shaft pilot bearing, anyhow a trip to the shop is in order before you climb the trunk on someones Mercedes. I would definitely replace all the clutch components regardless of which one is bad.

 

[TboneMan]

THanks jlhartak.



Since transmission's are not my cup of team, heck, anything more than fluid, tire and shock changes is a bit out of my reach.



Time to get someone to look at this who know what they are looking at.

 

[Loren]

TboneMan,



I know it's a drive for you, but you may want to consider South Bend Clutch in Indiana. I haven't had any clutch work done yet, but I'm taking my truck there when it needs it. (Admitedly, it's closer for me. )



If you do a search, I doubt that you'll find one bad comment about their products or their service.



Loren

 

[TboneMan]

Well I took the beast to a transmission shop that an independent mechanic recommended.



It looks like they are going to replace the clutch master&slave cylinders.



They said this solves the problem, although I did have my heart set on a new Southbend clutch.



I guess I'll wait until the next time.