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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission OEM Disc conversion (long)

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) chances of vp44 failure

2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Another Theory on Steering Wander?

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This is an early report so I can't tell you how it stops yet. Missing a few parts.



I'm glad I have an 02 to look at and see what they did differently. Although not everything is apparent to the eye.



This was neither cheap nor easy so far. I would probably recommend a good aftermarket set up if you wanted to do the swap.



Originally I was told that the brackets on the axle (Dana 80 in my case) would bolt up to the new disc backing plates. This was not true. Here is the scary part. I had to torch the flanges off the axle shafts and weld on new brackets that I had made. I will post pics later of how I did it. It wasn't easy hitting the first one knowing there was no turning back. After torching off the bulk I ground the rest smooth with the grinder. This left about a 4" diameter shaft. I used a 4" hole saw to make a hole in the new bracket and it fit with some play. After bolting the new bracket to the backing plate we the shimmed it so the rotor would sit in it's proper place and adjusted the parking brake on the drum part to hold it all in place. Slid it on the axle and that gave us the depth needed. As far as orientation we had to guess at this but looking at the other truck it was close enough. Tacked it on and removed the rotor/hub assembly and welded it in place. So far so good. Everything seems true and spins freely. Alignment looks true also.



Went to put in the new brake lines and the fittings are different size on the distribution block on the top of the axle. We have to replace the line from the axle to the frame. You also have to drill and tap a hole for the new lines to attach. Parking brake cables are different also. Not just on the backing plate side but where they come together and connect to the cable coming from the cab. From the cab there is a connector right under the drivers door forward. Then it goes to a smaller length to connect to both. This cable is a different length also. Then how the cables come together is also different. Waiting on those parts also.



Finally we went to replace the master cylinder. This also looked bolt in from the outside. Not so. There is a bracket that it bolts to. The hole that the plunger fits in is a different size because of the larger piston in the new master cylinder. I went this far already so we reamed the hole to a larger size and then we come to find out the rod coming out of the hydroboost was longer. Once again I'm glad we had a truck to look at. We pulled the one off the 02 and made a template for length and cut mine off and ground it round.



I talked with someone else that had done the swap and they didn't change the master cylinder. I figured it was important because of pedal travel. The brake cylinders on the drums are tiny compared to the dual pistons in the disc calipers. To move those would reqire a lot more pedal travel with the smaller piston in the master. Secondly the resevoir is twice the size. As the pads get low more fluid is required to move the larger pistons. I suppose you could just keep adding to the level but I had already gone this far and wanted to do it right.



Anyway, the parts should be in by tuesday. So that night we'll finish the install and bleed the brakes and then I'll report back on how it works.



Garrett
 
Making the bracket.

What a goofy set up. No two bolts measure the same from center. I ended up using some sheet metal and cutting the size I needed. Then welding washers on to get the holes in the right place. Even giving it my best shot I was off a little and had to enlarge the holes by 1/32" to make it work.



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Here is the torch job.

After torching off the bulk of the bracket I ground it round as best I could. The sheet metal is a protector from the slag of torching and welding. And the second pic is of the braket tacked on.



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WOW

Garrett,



Good job on the work. It looks good. I have a quick question on your conversion. Wouldn't you have been money ahead in labor to swap out the entire axle?:confused:



Ben
 
Holy #^#$@ !! I thought the conversion would go easier than that! Good thing you're close by so when I do mine... ... . ;) . Keep us posted on how it turns out.



Kev
 
Benhall

If I could have found a junk yard axle I would have. No one has late model trucks that aren't parted out to the pros right away. That and I have the 3:73 gears so I would have had to do a swap there too. Plus the master etc.



My biggest cost savings would have been to find some of the parts used instead of paying Mopars inflated prices. Unfortunately most are Dodge only parts.



As far as labor it took a couple of evenings to make the brackets. And a day so far in the other work. Should finish in an evening if all the right parts come in.



If anyone else is crazy enough to want to try this I have a third braket that the holes were slightly off to use as a template. That would just leave sawing and drilling time, which for 1/2" steel takes a while.



I'll keep you all informed after we get it going.



Garrett
 
MY god, I thought it would bolt right up, glad I did the EGR conversion:eek:

I had to have a machine shop ream out the inside of the new rotors to fit on the back of the hub but other than that, I had not too much problem. The aftermarket brackets bolted up and I was able to use the E-brake connectors. All turned out well and the brakes feel great. I also did the front slotted rotors and carbon kevlar pads.

The pics of my conversion is in my readers rigs album
 
Garrett,

I was wondering, how does the E-brake work on that? is the lever I see have a shoe-pad on it and it wedges up against the rotor? or what? The EGR way is a caliper that has a corkscrew effect to push the piston and make the pads pinch against the rotor. as you might imagine, it is not as effective as a drum E-brake but if I hold the foot brake tight then use the E-brake, then it holds better... . also I leave it in gear.

But anyway, is that how the stock E-brake works?



Eric
 
WOW, FABRICATION CITY!

Nice job. Where does the new mounting plate end up compared to the location of the original?



How long has it taken? Do you have a total yet?



I took a look at the EGR set up but it doesn't work on 3500's.
 
Eric

This is a 3500 so EGR's stuff wouldn't work. The E-brake has shoes like a regular drum. The drum is actually part of the inside of the rotor assembly. As I don't have it going yet I can't tell you how well it holds but our 2500 has no problems and our driveway is sloped so we set it all the time.



Extreme,



The bracket goes almost in the same place as the old one. By just grinding down the flanges it left a good solid area to weld to. As I said earlier the fabrication took a couple of evenings and the install took a day. If I had all the right parts it would have been a long day but it could have been done.



Garrett
 
Finally done.......

Well almost. They sent the wrong cable for the parking brake.



The truck is back on the road though. Gotta admit I probably had my expectations a little high. I was hoping to be thrown through the windshield. Instead I got greatly improved braking. The truck weighs in at close to 11k lbs. and I have to keep that in mind. With the drums in a panic stop the fade would set in to the point where it felt like they were quitting. Several hard stops on the new discs and she held solid and straight. Stopping distance was shortened by about a quarter. Not much difference in the amount of pedal pressure needed, still have to hit them pretty hard. Pedal feel is about the same.



Now this is only a round the block test drive. I'll report back after a few days and some break in on the pads.



On a side note. The tech I had helping me was with for the test drive and immediately identified my clunk as a loose shock bolt. I've heard this since I've had the truck and was unable to locate it. He say's it's a common problem with the Rams. The lower bolt was snug but needs to be wrenched super tight.



On another side note..... Has anyone used or heard of the Brake-Guard system? I was looking into this when I had the drums but figured it wouldn't do any good if they were always out of adjustment. As a matter of fact when we first tried to do this job the LR drum was removed and the shoe was sitting cocked inside the drum. Only about 10% was making contact.



Here's a link to the product. I'm going to give them a call and ask a few pertinent questions.



http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/truck_stop/parts/bguard.htm
 
Re: Finally done.......

Originally posted by Big White Beast

Has anyone used or heard of the Brake-Guard system?



Evil junk! Don't do it!!!!



About half of what they state as fact in the first paragraph is innaccurate (that means either they don't know or are misleading you).



The fluid can't recipricate through the lines? HOGWASH!! Anyone with warped rotors knows this is WRONG!



The shoes hit the high spots and create wear and heat and friction? DUH! What stops the vehical? If your drums are really warped, it would remove some of the pulsation.



Hydro-equalization? WTF is that?



All they are doing is adding an accumulator to your rear brakes. This in effect removes some functionality of the rear hydraulic circuit. If you had really touchy rear brakes (something Rams DON'T have), this would remove some of the lock up tendancy.



With this installed, as you apply the brakes, the pistons in the accumulators are moved by the hydraulic pressure, it actually takes away from brake force until the pistons bottom out. In other words, the pedal would have to travel farther before the same amount of brake force is applied to the shoes.



I did see a post on these some time ago, the owner was very unhappy with the result.



Sorry for the rant, I really get ticked off when I see crap like this being represented as an improvement to a braking circuit which happens to be a rather inportant safety feature.
 
Garret... how are the disc brakes doing. We are thinking of changing over a 96 3/4 to disc's. We have access to a wrecked 2001. 5 that we can steel the rear end out of. . Just not sure about the Master cylinder... Do you know of anyone that is not changed the master cylinder. It looks like you don't change the master when doing the EGR conversion. . but they could use a different size piston.

Just wanted some info on how the brakes were doing.

Thanks,

Bryan
 
Doing great........

I feel confident that I can stop the Beast now. Bit early to tell how they are wearing but I haven't seen nearly as much dust from the fronts so the backs must be picking up more of the load.



One other person has done the conversion that I know of and didn't use the master. He say's it's not a problem. Besides a bigger resevoir though it does have a larger piston. The resevoir could just be filled as pads wear down. The larger piston may help in not having to push the pedal as far for effective braking.



The only other thing I didn't address was the metering valve. On an empty truck it may apply too much braking to the rears. With all the weight on mine it hasn't been a problem.



Garrett
 
Great...

Just what we wanted to hear... Thanks for the reply... Not sure when we are going to tackle the job, but swapping the entire axles should be much easier than the chore you did. We are going to need new drums, and have aready had problems with the big nut on the end of the axle. . So the cost of the axles is a little offset... Thanks again for the information. .

Bryan
 
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