Off Road Diesel

[speedracer]

When I was shopping for a tractor, I was looking at a couple of diesel units, if I had got one of them I would have got a couple hundred gallon tank here at the house and had off road delivered. I would have then used it in the cummins as well. I've never been checked, even in the big truck(but I wouldn't risk it in the big truck). But I ended up buying an older gas tractor, so I didn't do that.

 

[JohnE]

Any line on using automatic trany fluid is just an EXCUSE for having <font color=red>red fuel</font>.

Ading it in the filter will get it back in the tank, too. Diesel injection pumps circulate the unused fuel back to the tank.



The red dye is very easily detected. I've been told a duel usage vehicle is NOT exempt. You must only use taxed(clear) fuel if you run on the road system. You can apply for refund of the road tax for the legitimate off-road usage portion of the ful bill.



-John

 

[Champane Flight]

Nope

Nope,red dye testing is from a fuel sample taken from the tank or at the fuel filter. They only need about 10ccs of fuel to test. The equipment will detect ANY red dye. This means that it might not even be detectable to the naked eye!The testing equipment detects down to 1-5 ppm.



After handling this dye for the last five years,I have decided NOT to use it in my Cummins... ... Even if it is cheaper,it ain't worth it if you get caught..... A local farmer got caught the other day,was fined $10,000. 00 and lost his tax exempt status. Plus he will be audited for the next 10 years. Not my idea of fun... ... He tryed to fight it,the IRS had printouts of ALL his on road diesels,with concentrations of 21. 9ppm,NO chance!

 

[CJ Johansson]

Re: Nope

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Nope,red dye testing is from a fuel sample taken from the tank or at the fuel filter. They only need about 10ccs of fuel to test. The equipment will detect ANY red dye. This means that it might not even be detectable to the naked eye!The testing equipment detects down to 1-5 ppm.

OK, I never use the red stuff in my trucks, just for tractors, etc. I do, however, carry about 110 gal of the stuff in my tank on the flatbed for filling tractors, etc.



Now, here's where I get a bit worried. I have, on occasion, taken a long trip and pumped the aux tank as dry as I could back into my big tank. Then filled the aux tank with road fuel. Now, from the above, if they check my tank, they're gonna find traces of red fuel since I don't steam clean the aux tank. Of course, I've got records to show that I just filled the aux tank with road fuel, but I suppose it could be a hassle...



-cj

 

[The patriot]

Originally posted by mikeg135

I wanted to ask you guys a question, since I have not been steered wrong yet by this site.



I just joined a new hunting club, and the farmer who owns the property told me that I could fill up the dodge anytime I wanted to at his pumps for free. But this is off road diesel. I know it is a different color, and the it has different additives. But I am not sure if we can run this in our trucks without any problems. I have an ETH.



Any input on this would be appreicated.

Does this guy have any relatives here in NJ?

I've used "red" in my truck during <ahem> testing... and it runs fine. I'm in the middle of a long term test right now. (@ 75K miles) No problemo.

I would reccomend some fuel conditioner though. Mine smokes a bit more.

Eric

 

[Blakers]

Does anyone know exactly what the red dye is composed of? I wonder if it could be distilled out?

 

[illflem]

The red dye is an extremely concentrated tenacious chemical. It would probably be cheaper to pay the tax than to remove it. Otherwise it would be useless right?

 

[SmokinJoe]

Re: Nope

Originally posted by Champane Flight

Nope,red dye testing is from a fuel sample taken from the tank or at the fuel filter. They only need about 10ccs of fuel to test. The equipment will detect ANY red dye. This means that it might not even be detectable to the naked eye!The testing equipment detects down to 1-5 ppm.

That sounds like bait, we should all just add some red dye to our fuel so that when we get audited we can say we run a red additive. Once they thry to prosecute us we can sick the lawyers on the state...

 

[JohnE]

Re: Re: Nope

<font size=1><em>Smokin Joe said</em>



<b>That sounds like bait, we should all just add some red dye to our fuel so that when we get audited we can say we run a red additive. Once they thry to prosecute us we can sick the lawyers on the state... </b></font>



<hr>



That's where the myth of adding transmission fluid got started. It has a red dye, too.



You'd be better off using one of the 2 stroke oils with red dye. It is made to be burned.



-John

 

[Champane Flight]

No bait.

No bait guys. Just the hook. I have always lost when fighting city hall. Or the goverment for that matter. The guy that got busted here had a few bucks,he fought it,he doesen't have a few bucks now.



There are several different dyes out there being used. We use a dye called "Solvent red 25" . It is VERY concentrated and does have a couple items that have a corrosive value. I tryed to post the MSDS sheet once but it didn't come out to well. I prefer to burn straight #2 and stay away from it.



I wish they would get rid of it and go to a honor system or just say farmers get a break period. Red dye is a pain in the bu!! and does not work. (as seen here).

 

[dodger22]

Blakers - Does anyone know exactly what the red dye is composed of? I wonder if it could be distilled out?



I attended a seminar a couple of weeks ago on "How to winterize your RV". The tech guy said that if you have an inline water filter be sure to bypass/disconnect before pumping the RV anti-freeze through as it will take the colour out of the antifreeze and you will not know if you are pumping water or antifreeze out of the system.



Maybe a filter could be "dedicated" to this task... ... ... get my drift?



Just a thought.



Richard

 

[Jff24Gordn]

If they are getting concentrations for the dye in 1/10th of a ppm, then thye are not just checking to se if it looks red. They are doing a legitmate test. Maybe spectrospy on a specific wavelength, but that might be easy to get an over estimate. More than likely, they use a titration where they add another chemical to the diesel fuel that reacts with the dye. When you add enough of the indiacator to react with all the dye, then there is some indiacator left over. They can use a spectrophotometer to see how much indicator it takes for there to be some extra indiactor. You do some math to calculate how much indiacator was used to react to how much dye, and you come up with a number. Inorder to cheat a test like this, you would need to know exactly what kind of test is used to test for the dye. Then add enough indiacator to react with all the dye, then it appears to be undyes fuel. A test like this can detect a very small amount, and if they are arsholes, they can get you for fuel from a year ago. But this is alot more trouble than just buyin the road fuel, and the indicator might be harmfull for our trucks.

 

[DieselDoghouse]

Given that our fuel systems are loop circulation with an overflow return from the injector pump, wouldn't the dye from the ATF fed into the filter eventually wind up in the fuel returned to the tank??

 

[SteveH]

For Montana residents, read the Helena, Great Falls, and Billings newspaper for this last week and you'll see that our wonderful Governor aka Miss Doubtfire, has hired 32 new people who will be doing nothing but watching gas stations in Montana for people who are filling up with the red diesel. Seems our red dyed diesel usage is up astronomically for some reason and they know that this is being used now by many people for everyday use. Its pretty easy to figure out the highest output stations in Montana and these are probablythe ones that will be watched the most. If you run red dyed on the road, good luck.

Steve H.