Oil Analysis: Amsoil 5W-30 in 6-Speed

[Lordsman]

6-speed oil

I'm keeping an eye out here as I also have a 6-spd. 33,500 miles

and feel it's time for a change(lube that is). I want to order the filter kit from Geno's to go with the new lube. By the way Vaughn how many miles on the transmission now?

 

[Don M]

If Amsoil's goal is profitability. Then after all the guys they pay to sell it in the marketing chain i. e. multi level marketing, how much money is left for a good product?

Remembering the corporate profits are at stake. If they spend a good portion of profit paying MLM salesmen and still make their profit the oil quality would have to come down to make the profit huh?

Amsoil is such a small fry in the oil game they dont have the bucks to purchase products produced by the big oil companies in quantities. With only 6 suppliers of additive package components and 5 of them being big oil companies that want to make a profit as well. How much money can Amsoil afford to pay for additive packages from the suppliers keeping in mind the corporate profit margins?

Amsoil is such a ****-ant size company for oil related products they are out spent. Big oil makes the stuff Amsoil puts in their oil. Dont think Amsoil is cooking this stuff up in the factory. They buy it from Phillips, Texaco, Chevron, Lubrisol, etc.

The same people and products they make out to be inferior.



I almost forgot about the Amsoil vitamins they sell now. Cant remember the name right now. Something that sounded like Amsoil or Amway. Might they take the profit from vitamins to help the oil side out?



Don~

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by MGM



Actually breaking federal laws while they do it!!

gene

Funny how the Federal Government allows General Aviation Aircraft ( i. e. , Cessna's and simular junk) to fly around with dangerously underqualified/under regulated/under trained "pilots" with engines with NO muffler, NO Emmisions equipment of any kind, burning 1960's grade LEADED high octane fuel but *I* am breaking federal law by removing my muffler or whatever. sounds fair to me



We need a bigger lobby to get the same special treatment.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

TD - I'm trying real hard not to explode over this one. I am a pilot (~450 hours and instrument rated - haven't been able to afford to fly for the last couple of years due to my daughters birth and decisions we made regarding that, namely my wife staying home). Your "dangerously underqualified/under regulated/under trained 'pilots'" comment really gets under my skin. How familiar with GA are you? Are you aware of the actual accident statistics? GA is actually very safe, did you know that more people are killed at railroad crossings every year than ALL of the people that die in airplanes (even last year with the WTC accident most likely - we won't have those numbers for a while yet though)? Do you know that pilots have to take at a MINIMUM a bi-ennial (once every two years) flight review with a flight instructor, or that instrument pilots have to have a certain number of simulated/actual approaches logged in the last 6 months in order to fly under IFR rules? Or that ALL pilots have to log at least 3 landings and takeoffs during daylight to be allowed to carry passengers in daylight? Or that they have to log 3 landings and takeoffs at night to carry passengers at night?



You mention under regulated in your post, much of the reason GA is still running the engines they are is because of OVERregulation!! The capital expenditure required to certify a new aircraft engine is astronomical (like in the 10's of millions of dollars, when there are around 1000 aircraft sold each year). Thus far NOONE has been able to produce a high HP (over 200hp) piston engine that can run non-leaded fuels and stay together. There are STC's for ~100 hp engines that will allow them to run on regular unleaded, but nothing yet for the high HP engines. You have to keep in mind that most aviation engines are producing 75% + of their rated power for 99% of their lifetimes - not less than 5% like automotive engines. How about that a rebuild on a 300hp engine for an aircraft costs $50,000 as opposed to ~$1,000-$2,000 on an automotive engine? Believe me, us pilots would love to be able to run auto fuels because we could just fill our aircraft from our tanks in the back of our trucks instead of filling up with AVGAS - it's just simply NOT feasible right now. The vast majority of those costs are dealing with the "under" regulations that you mention - otherwise how can you explaine that I can buy a fan belt at an automotive store for $10 and the EXACT same belt coming off the EXACT same production line except certified for aircraft costs $200?



When it comes to mufflers keep in mind that when within 2 minutes of taking off and within 2 minutes of landing I am a 1/4 mile from anyone (and the average flight is around 2 hrs, so that is approximately . 8% of the time I'm flying) - not feet like a road vehicle. A $50 automotive muffler would be a $2000 aviation muffler - is $1950 worth a slight reduction in sound levels only at take off and landing? At this point, the only people affected by the noise of GA aircraft are people that have CHOSEN to live near an airport (there are SOME exceptions - but not many) - at least in the last 20 years or so all of them were warned about the local airport, but still chose to buy there!



How about the benefits of GA? Did you know that many GA pilots volunteered their aircraft and their personal time to fly blood and skin (for grafts) in the week following the terrorist attacks on 9/11? Or that MANY pilots volunteer their time and aircraft costs to transport people (for free) to hospitals that can care for them? Or the amount of money that a local airport bring into your local economy? I looked at an airport plan for one of our local airports here years ago - it brought $20,000,000 per year into the local economy, this is in a town of 50,000 people. How about the amount of taxes paid by GA pilots? Did you know that AVGAS goes for approximately DOUBLE the amount the regular unleaded does? Much of that is taxes!



When it comes to emissions - why pick on GA when boats are as unregulated and have far more vessels in the fleet and burn more fuel than aviation with much less benefit to the economy?



Sorry to get on my soap box but the majority of the people don't understand the amount of training that is necessary to get your pilots license. Nor are they aware of the amount of regulation involved, or the benefit that GA provides to the economy.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

QUOTE:

Try using Amsoils engine oil in yer automatic transmission - and THEN see if they honor any "warranty" when that transmission FAILS - of course they would NOT, nor SHOULD they, when you improperly use their product, regardles of how GOOD it may be in its intended use.



So WHY should DC honor a warranty item when improper or unspecified chemicals or hardware are installed?



YOU wouldn't...



Neither would *I*...

Gary,

What in the world are you talking about???



Nobody here is telling someone to put the WRONG oil in!!

What kind of argument is that???





I don't recall any threads like the one below, do you?

"I put gear lube in my engine it blew up and I want DC to pay for it. "



I tell you what, when the facts don't back up the Amsoil bashers, they start grasping at straws and can be expected to say anything no matter how out of line!!!

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent

When it comes to mufflers keep in mind that when within 2 minutes of taking off and within 2 minutes of landing I am a 1/4 mile from anyone (and the average flight is around 2 hrs, so that is approximately . 8% of the time I'm flying) - not feet like a road vehicle. A $50 automotive muffler would be a $2000 aviation muffler - is $1950 worth a slight reduction in sound levels only at take off and landing? At this point, the only people affected by the noise of GA aircraft are people that have CHOSEN to live near an airport (there are SOME exceptions - but not many) - at least in the last 20 years or so all of them were warned about the local airport, but still chose to buy there!

I figured I would stir the pot with this one. Still dont understand why they need leaded gasoline.



My father in law is a pilot (commercial - DC-10's) , my wife was a GA pilot when we got married (22 years ago), my brother in law is a GA pilot.



I dont live near an airport, the nearest one(s) are 10+ miles away but I do live very close to a river and every Saturday, when the weather is nice we have to listen constantly to these "pilots" buzzing the river at (estimated) <500' AGL. And they buzz our house at low altitudes too. How do I know that they are at low altitudes? Because of the noise and we have to wait till they go by to finish talking. I have heard them talk and brag about such stunts thinking it is funny. I have called the FAA and the airport about the low AGL flights and have been told yes and no to that being legal and to get the number off the plane. I cant read the 1" high letters on the planes. I did manage to get the #'s off of one and I heard that the FAA cited him for flying below the minimum altitude and the airport operator told him to cease as well. One victory for me. But we still have to have our peace and quiet broken many times a day by these low flying jerks. I have no interest pro or con to GA but I am tired of the noise. Let me say it again, we wouldnt be discussing this if the GA planes were not causing me problems by flying at low AGL. We drive over one hour each way to Austin and choose to live this far out in the country because we enjoy the peaceful country but my question is WHY do the GA aircraft have to be fly so low? Guess they should buy a boat so they could get a better river view As I am typing this the is one going by at the incredible altitude of 250' heading for the river. I guessed the altitude based on him being about 5 telephone poles (equivalent) above ground. If they were professional people they would be aware of the noise that they produce.



When I lived in Phoenix two of these GA aircraft collided (sp?) over a PGA event, witness' said they flew into each other at about 250', nearly killed a bunch of people on the ground. One of the jerks survived the collision and crash ( it seems stupidity is hard to kill) but claimed he wasnt "observing the PA event" yea, right. Another time the same year one of these GA single engine planes flew into a power line. Not the high voltage cross country type but the wooden pole type. He was probably less than 50' AGL. Newspaper said that he didnt report any engine trouble, people on the ground said he had made several low passes that same hour. They were ultralight planes in the open desert having a get together and he kept buzzing them until the power line did the world a favor and grounded the idiot - permanently. He and his dad actually owned a private airstrip a few miles away and neighbors had complained several times to the FAA about him buzzing them.



Perhaps this is an example of the few giving the whole a bad name.

I'll stop now.

 

[Deezal Man]

See what ya did... . It happens everytime



I thought by now you guys would have this thing figured out... . so we could reap the benefits of your labors... ... . Whats taking so long... Aweful lot of fuss going on... Could it be that your wasting all your time... getting all upset over nothing???



All someone has to say is "OIL" And some of us just sit back and watch the show. While the rest of you get suited up for action.







Gary, Take a nitro pill before your heart explodes.



And how did Aviation get into this mess. LOL LOL... ...





BTW: you guys are all wrong, I have all the answers... You should be using ... ... ... ... ... ...



Thats why I love this family. . Hours and hours of discussion about oil. . result in... ..... nothing.

 

[Riflesmith]

Gary,

When did I mention warrany claims? My warranty went south permanently when I installed the Edge Comp. box. DC is most certainly NOT in charge of what I do to my vehicle. They can have that level of control over me and what I choose to do as soon as they start making my payments for me.



This thread was simply about my choice to use a different lube in my six speed. It was my choice, my risk. All is well with my transmission and I will continue to use this oil in it, changing it every 30,000 or so, since all oils suffer shear related viscosity breakdown in this application.



DC's position on a "lifetime fill" for our transmissions is ludicrous.



This isn't about warranty.

 

[Don M]

Riflesmith,



I gotta agree with you on the "not a fill for life lubricant". Motor oil is generaly not considered something you would leave in a transmission for long because of the shearing between gear faces. What is the price of the Texaco stuff?



The biggest problem I have is with bone stock fellas that still have and want to be able to access the warranty from DC. If they use the Amsoil they could be denied coverage. What a drag that would be. 6 speeds transmissions are still pretty spendy and some felas dont have the cash laying around to buy one.



Not that the Amsoil would cause a failure, but that DC would void warranty coverage for the simple fact that they did not have the Texaco stuff in there.





I know that Amsoil states they will pay for oil related failures from lubrication. The problem I have is, what if the failure was not oil related? Amsoil now does not have to pay for the repair and Dc has voided the warranty because of improper oil.

Lets say that Amsoil did find the oil to be the problem and they are agreeing to pay the tab. How fast will the bucks come from Amsoil? How many guys will have to analyze the oil to make the decision to pay up? It just seems easier to go ahead and use the Texaco until the warranty is up for the guys that want to still have one.



I worry that guys will see others using Amsoil in their trans and figure that it must be ok to use. Amny guys just dont know the warranty issues that come into play. I did not know about the oil filter issues until last week.



Don~

 

[Riflesmith]

DonM,

You certainly have a point. It was not my intention to mislead anyone that using this oil in your six-speed is Mopar approved.

The results of the analysis proves that the Texaco lube is not the only viable choice for these transmissions. This does not mean that you are not giving up your warranty by using it.



That is the great thing about this forum. All you have to do is look around a little, and you can come up with the right information for your situation. This is true regardless of your warranty. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't let a dealer touch my truck, so I will use what I believe to be the best available to ensure a long life.



Those who insist on maintaining their warranty, IMO, should use the Texaco lube, but change it at an interval they are comfortable with. They can switch to something better when their warranty expires.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

MGM sez:



"Nobody here is telling someone to put the WRONG oil in!!

What kind of argument is that???"





HMMMmmm - as *I* recall, DC specifies "API certified" oils to be used in the Cummins engine, and ALSO as I recall, Amsoil IS NOT API certified - so do ya wanna re-read and rephrase yer comment above?



MY bloodpressure threatened/ shucks no - I personally feel, and have several times expresseed the opinion that Amsoil and other synthetics are GREAT - just too costly for the "benefits", nor would *I personally* wanna leave ANY oil in my crankcase for 10s of thousands of miles to recover the cost of the more expensive synthetics.



Nor do I choose to stand idly by as OTHERS *DO* make such recommendations!

 

[Riflesmith]

Gary,

Your blood pressure may not be high, but your emotions seem to be higher than mine on this subject. I, for one am reporting someting I have experienced with my Cummins equipped Ram. Nothing more, nothing less. I am not endorsing any particular product, nor recommending any oil to any individual for any purpose. I am simply reporting the facts concerning this oil in MY

transmission.



Unless I am way off base, that is one of the things that make these forums the resource that they are.



I don't care one bit if DC or anyone else does not approve of what I am doing. Don't give a hoot what the almighty DC specifies. They don't make the payments, I do.



I don't understand the emotions that users of synthetic oils bring out in some people. Synthetic users are not forcing their beliefs on anyone. All the synthetic oil users I know are more than willing to admit that using conventional oils with standard change intervals will give excellent equipment life. I just don't see the problem.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

And *I* suspect you think that MY comments on the subject are directed only to YOU, and for YOUR benefit...



You're WRONG! (backround strains of the song "you're so vain")



This ISN'T just about YOU!



It IS about the use by some of various products contrary to the specifications clearly outlined by auto makers. MY point on the issue, for the benefit of both regulars AND casual passes-by (NOT just YOU!) to this forum, is, use whatever you CHOOSE in yer vehicle, whatever gives ya a "warm and fuzzy feeling", but WHEN and IF your arbitrary choice goes against the recommendations of the maker of yer vehicle, don't crawl off whining about how that nasty, evil service guy won't honor the warranty when something fails!



That's all, that's it, nothing more, nothin' less!



Believe me when I tell you I REGULARLY come across folks in various groups who insist on installing a WIDE variety of aftermarket stuff on their cars/truck - LOTS of go-fast goodies, and when their rides inevitably fail under loads and uses they weren't designed for, you oughta hear the weeping and wailing for the "poor abused" owner who is left high and dry by a service department who recognizes abuse of recommendations when they see them, and DENY warranty repairs.



You say YOU signed off on warranty when you started use of non authorized stuff on your truck - good for you, you clearly understand and accept the liability such products incur...



Lots of folks DON'T, and it's THOSE my comments are aimed at, as well as those I consider irresponsible few who insist it's ok to freely use their favorite brand of snakeoil, cuz when push comes to shove, Magnussen-Moss will come to their rescue, or some of the snakeoil manufacturers themselves will step in and do it for them...



The NEXT such case *I* hear of will make #1...

 

[Riflesmith]

Gary,

I am not being vain. I understand that your comments are directed at others besides myself.



That said, I must reiterate that I merely posted facts concerning my oil analysis. Your posts have been quite rude. You have accused me (and others) of experimenting on DC's dime(warranty) without facts to back up your accusations. I never intended to "cheat" DC out of anything and I resent the implication that I would. Not everyone is dishonest in this world.



Once again if you don't like what I am doing to MY vehicle. You can feel free to not like it till the cows come home. But keep your accusations of dishonesty to yourself. You are being irrational. Good day to you anyway.



By the way, where did your argument about running engine oil in an automatic transmission and then expecting DC to honor the warranty come from? Really reaching on that one weren't we.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

SORRY to so upset you - my sincere apology, it has NOT been my intent - but a few comments to your last response deserve comment...



====



>Your posts have been quite rude.



Please indicate where my comments have been "rude"... plainly stated perhaps, but RUDE?

>

>You have accused me (and others) of experimenting on DC's >dime(warranty) without facts to back up your accusations.



Please provide a quotation from me where I have accused ANYONE of "expirimenting on DC's dime" - I recall no such statement by me.



> I never intended to "cheat" DC out of anything and I resent the >implication that I would. Not everyone is dishonest in this world.



AGAIN, please provide the quotation from me containing my accusation that ANYONE is attempting to "cheat" DC - I see NO such statement by me!



>Once again if you don't like what I am doing to MY vehicle. You >can feel free to not like it till the cows come home. But keep >your accusations of dishonesty to yourself. You are being >irrational. Good day to you anyway.



I could care LESS what you do with YOUR truck - and have made clear statements as to the fact that owners are ENTIRELY free to do with their vehicles as the wish, just don't expect DC to trip over themselves correcting the owners poor judgement and use of non-authorized products.



You ARE correct in your "irrational" observation, however, I don't think it's ME who is he guilty one...



>By the way, where did your argument about running engine oil >in an automatic transmission and then expecting DC to honor the >warranty come from? Really reaching on that one weren't we.



You musta "conveniently " missed my reply to MGM, when HE questioned that example... Since you missed it, I'll repeat it for you:



=======

MGM sez:



"Nobody here is telling someone to put the WRONG oil in!!

What kind of argument is that???"





HMMMmmm - as *I* recall, DC specifies "API certified" oils to be used in the Cummins engine, and ALSO as I recall, Amsoil IS NOT API certified - so do ya wanna re-read and rephrase yer comment above?

=========



Capeesh? So if DC says ONLY API motor oil should be used in the Cummins, and Amsoil peddlers tell me it's OK, in SPITE of non API certification, where does that leave us...



BUT, in any case, I apologize for any distress my comments have caused you - and hope we can get along better in the next thread we cross paths in - meanwhile, you truly have my best wishes!

 

[X-10]

Thanks for the report Riflesmith, some of us do appreciate an ACTUAL report on a product, whether it be PRO or CON.

 

[Sled Puller]

Gary,

I stand by that statement. I have a whole book full of lubricants that Amsoil does not make a suitable replacement for. If Amsoil says an oil is safe in a certain application, it is safe. If anyone is that concerned about it, ask them to put it in writing, or just don't use it.

Time and time again people come out here with proof it works, better than factory lubes, yet a few keep coming on saying "DON'T USE IT! Go figure. Capeesh?



Other,

Warranty coverage CAN NOT be voided on a whim by a Dealer.



Please, somebody show me a real case where this has happened, just once.

If you can, I will be::--)





Gene

 

[PRout]

Im just thankful that this "discussion" has been able to continue w/o a moderator limiting it. This hashing out of opinions gives an opportunity to decide which values & objectives are important for us.



Ive been sensored a couple times over on the . . well, another site for giving my honest opinion. I thought it killed the real purpose of the thread. Thank you Moderators.



Anyways, sorry for that bit of poop.



MY QUESTION IS: Does anyone know EXACTLY WHY we must use this one kind of Texaco oil?



What SPECIFIC PROPERTY does it have that other oils dont have. I believe I read once that it is due to a bronze (i think) coating on the syncros that need a special additive, but not sure as im certainly not a chemist.



Does Amsoil have this same ability?



Having to pay this crazy price for gear lube sorta ticks ya off! Maybe this is just a "supply & demand" pricing.



Thanks.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Shortshift

MY QUESTION IS: Does anyone know EXACTLY WHY we must use this one kind of Texaco oil?

I don't have the specification sheet for this magic Texaco lubricant used in the NV5600, but what typically differentiates gear lubricants from motor oil is the increased presence of an extreme pressure additive (the "fishy" smell in normal hypoid gear lube). This is essential to protect the gear teeth from high sliding friction loads at low surface speeds when hydrodynamic lubrication films may not be present. At the same time, the lubricity has to be right for the syncros - if the lube is "too slick", the syncros won't do their job in matching input/output speeds, and the gears will "grind" on engagement (sound familiar? ).



Rusty

 

[BRobertson]

Labeling pilots as underregulated is bull****!!! As a 12,000 + hour pilot I can attest to the overbearing nature of the FAA!!!!

Bob