Oil analysis, Dealers, and Warranty....

[roperteacher]

Just out of curiosity... what would happen if you submitted an oil sample and it came back that you had higher levels of Fuel or Coolant or something in the oil that would indicate an emerging problem with your engine... But it was still running fine etc. .



Would you have a leg to stand on with the dealer or should you just let it blow up and let them fix that?/LOLOLOLO



I am not speaking from experience, nor having any problems, I was wondering how a dealer might view an oil analysis as PROOF that a warranty repair is needed. . Thanks!!Oo.

 

[DUKFVR]

Let it blow up. Had an incident several years ago with a dodge 360 gas motor. Started giving me problems ,took it to the dealer. Bad bearing in engine. we will rebuild it. Motor had less than a 1000 miles on it. Argued with them that I wanted a new motor ,no go. Asked the service writer later after it was all did & done what would happen if I had just let it go till the motor blew. He said you would have got a new motor. Ever happens again & I think the motor is going ,I am going to drive it till it dies.

 

[rbattelle]

Would you have a leg to stand on with the dealer

Absolutely no chance. Service managers will look at you like you've got lobsters coming out of your ears, and laugh you all the way out of the parking lot.



The entire automobile business is a giant crap shoot. The manufacturers are betting you your vehicle will hold together until the warranty runs out. And the odds always favor the house.



Under that kind of thinking, there is no incentive to perform anything except the most essential preventative maintenance (oil and filter changes).



Ryan

 

[roperteacher]

Unfortunately I think your right Rbattelle!!!!! I was speaking to another TDR member and they said that Chrysler actually uses a similar lab to send samples too. THis member also said that if they got a lab report that something was out of whack they would have Heck to pay at the dealership. . I am trying to picture what my service writer would say and he would be supportive BUT your right Chrysler is NOT going to fix ANYTHING that isin't broke! Even then they are going to accuse YOU of breaking it!!

 

[magothy1]

You're dead on right, Ryan, it's like health insurance, they make the odds and set the bets. The truck is built to last the length of the basic warranty.

 

[jelag]

I had a good friend who works for one of these dealers share something with me... . he said he learns more from the guys on the TDR than he does from the dealer training program, and if he follows this sight he's always 2 or 3 steps ahead of the other techs at the dealership and the information from the factory. .

Unless its been necessary my trucks don't go back to the dealer... . its just safer that way... .

 

[CDonaldson]

I had to stop at my dealer on Friday, so I asked the service writer the hypothetical question - What if, a customer came in with a lab test from a certified and qualified lab that tested oil, and that the test indicated coolant in the oil, how would HE handle it? I got the deer in the headlights look and his first reply had to do with not knowing people could send out oil for testing, thought only dealers did that stuff, etc. From there I got a lot of mumbo-jumbo, and he never addressed my question. )Personally I think this guy needs to be a politician instead of a service writer from his reply) So, I then walked into the dealers owners office and asked him the same question. His reply was that he would get THAT vehicle into the shop right away, sounded like a head gasket to him, but certainly the problem needed addressed. He also said that a lab test is as good as gold to him and also DC, not disputable. I told him his service writers reply to me, last I saw him he was getting a little red-faced and heaing out to the service department where he promptly took the service writer outside to have a chat.



I know two techs that read all the diesel sites just to get good information about diesels and fixing them. One noticed my TDR sticker and after that he insited I was right there when he was working on my truck. All he's done is the 2 recalls - tank vent and ABS module, but he wanted to discuss all kind of stuff from here while he was working.



CD

 

[roperteacher]

I asked my Service writer today what he would do and he certainly was supportive of the Oil analysis and called me a "Responsible Owner" ... He quickly reminded me that he replaced my water pump based on a picture and said that Oil analysis is a great trouble shooting tool! Sample should be at Blackstone Tues or Wed. I have USPS delivery confirmation. Can't wait to get the results!!

 

[BHolm]

This thread reminds me of my '03 Isuzumax/Allicrap truck. At the 25k transmission service my independant guy told me the trans fluid was burnt black. He flushed it and changed the filter. I put another 2000 miles on it and it was black again. I took it to the dealer and told them the trans was going to fail, obviously it was slipping or generating a bunch of heat somehow. They did another flush but the idiots at GM "customer service" deemed the filter didn't need replacing because it was so recently done Of course another couple thousand miles later it was black again. Then they provided a TSB staing that black trans fluid in the Allicrap was "normal". I fought customer service for a solid week to get them to flush, fill and replace both filters in the trans, as this had supposedly helped others (via the internet). They finally agreed and did the work. Right after I got it back I traded it for a Dodge. When GM customer service called to see if I was satisfied with the resolution, I told them I was... . I was very happy with my new DODGE and wasn't buying from them anymore, after a string of half a dozen GM trucks.



The manufacturers will fight tooth and nail to deny expensive claims. The service manager at that dealer agreed with me completely, he just had a heck of a time getting GM to pay. They were clearly betting it would make it to 36k and it would be my baby. They were not going to do anything meaningful unless it failed completely, which I was prepared to facilitate for them:-laf Instead of fighting the morons, I unloaded the truck.

 

[TFucili]

Nah, that rod through the block? They all do that...it's normal, Sir.

When I owned a couple of disastrous 6. 9 Fords, which both had all sorts of problems, the F-350 had tremendous oil consumption problems from day one. I sent out for oil analysis regularly and the iron content, and a couple other elements were so out of whack that the lab called me on the phone to warn me while the full results were in the mail. The dealer was clueless, so I went to war with the district office. They would not recognize oil analysis as a diagnostic tool. They couldn't explain to me how major fleets use it as a tool to optimize service intervals, and to recognize the onset of a problem, but they would not recognize it. As others have pointed out whether it's an auto warranty or your insurance agent, who all profess to being your undying ally, when it's time to reach into their pockets all bets are off. Their job is to find a reason NOT to pay you.

 

[Buffalo]

I believe that I would continue with UOA's (used oil analysis) & have the results entered into your trucks "history", at the dealership, in question. That way, you have a way of 'backing-up your warnings', to the dealer.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[BHolm]

I believe that I would continue with UOA's (used oil analysis) & have the results entered into your trucks "history", at the dealership, in question. That way, you have a way of 'backing-up your warnings', to the dealer.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

Thats all fine and dandy but, they will still wait until there is a catostrophic failure before they act. I think there is plenty of proof of that. It was the main reason I traded off that Chevy. My wife pulls horses through the mountains, and it is a very rural area. The last dang thing I need is to KNOW the transmission is going to fail, and to KNOW via Murphys Law, that it will fail at the worst possible time and and in the worst possible place. The fact is, they dont care.

 

[jltcasper3]

Oil sampling is an excellant diagnostic tool, if used right you can prevent major catastrophic failures, and the fix is usually cheaper when found early. I think Car dealers should use it but they deem it un nessesay. I work for a john deere construction equipment dealer and we take lots of engine, hydralic and gear case oil samples, and yes it almost gives you proof that you will find something wrong when you tear into something if you get bad samples, or have a number creeping up after multiple samples.



I think if you have a log of multiple engine oil samples and can show 100% proof that there is some abnormal wear or fuel, coolent in the engine they should be able to do a warrenty claim, because you the responsible owner have 100% proof that something is wrong, because samples don't lie.

 

[nickleinonen]

because samples don't lie.

i don't know about that... maybe it is just the lab we have at work doing the oil sampling, but i have had several engines that had fuel dilution issues and not clearly show on the sample burn. .

the V100c showed something was wrong when it was way low in viscosity [and the engine kept shutting down for low oil pressure]. but the sample showed NO [0. 0%] fuel dilution in the oil sample. . and it wasn't a little bit of fuel either. . as soon as i opened the rocker box cover, all you could smell was fuel. . i suspect it was close to 5% fuel dilution [sump holds 300 imp gallons - you do the math]

 

[jltcasper3]

true, but yes that could be due to the lab that was testing it. If theres an excessive amount of fuel, it should show up on the report unless for some reason it's not being tested for it. Also if you get a bad sample back it could also be caused by contamination and the person who took it.

 

[nickleinonen]

all true. . cleanliness is godliness when it comes to engine lube oil samples. . it is a very good tool, but it is something that can give you false results

[and i fear my oil lab may not be the most picky when it comes to the samples & cross contamination. i still use it though as it is free ]

 

[roperteacher]

I even saw where you can get your own oil analysis equipment!! Only costs 13,000 bucks!!

 

[nickleinonen]

I even saw where you can get your own oil analysis equipment!! Only costs 13,000 bucks!!

how 'bout we all chip in a few $$$ and have a tdr run oil lab...

 

[amsoilman]

Several years ago, a customer of mine had me install a By-pass oil system, and he ran the Amsoil 15W-40 Synthetic oil. After 7K miles on the oil, he had me take an oil sample and send in. The report came back with 4% fuel dilution and Viscosity had droped into the 30 grade. Remarks said to "Check Fueling system and change oil. " Customer contacted the dealership, but they said to change the oil and everything would be just fine.



The customer came to me and he and I called the 800 "Hot Line" for Cummins, and they said take it to dealer and have them look at the Injectors/Injection pump for leakage. HE took it back to the dealer and told them what Cummins hot line had said, and they pulled the injectors, and found two were not completly closeing on their Bosch test stand.



The injectors were replaced, and he has never had a problem since on his oil analysis. The truck now has 253,000 miles and runs great.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[roperteacher]

Thanks everyone!! Blackstone should have my sample today. I sent it with a tracking #so all is well!!! They said on their website that they run it same day or the next. Will they E-mail you the results quickly!!! Thanks! :-laf