Oil Analysis explanation?

[David Muench]

Just got the results back from my first oil analysis from Monitor (fleetguard). I didn't do one for my first oil change at 7500, but did it for this one at 15k. Comments say "data flagged for observation only". . What's that mean? Also says iron and abrasives are at a minor level.



iron: 67ppm (and some up arrows?)

chromium: 1

nickel: 0

aluminum: 3

copper: 11

lead: 4

tin: 0

cadmium: 0

silver: 0

titanium: 0

vanadium: 0

silicon: 21 (up arrows)

sodum: 8

potassium: 4

molybendum: 1

antimony: 0

manganese: 1

lithium: 0

boron: 565

magnesium: 0

calcium: 3020

barium: 0

phosphorus: 1014

zinc: 1175



fuel: 0. 5 % of volume

soot: < . 1%

water: < . 1%



So. . Is that good? I've never had oil analyzed before. What do the up arrows mean?



I figure I could call them, but I figure you all might know better anyway. I'm running rotella T so far and stratapore filters, but am planning to go to an amsoil dual bypass at 22. 5k. Or maybe I'll switch at 20k so I have nice even 10k increments for future filter changes. .

 

[Riflesmith]

I suggest you check your air filter

for possible seal leakage. The elevated iron and elevated silicon levels could be an indication you have dirt getting into your intake air. Just my $. 02. Hope it helps you.

 

[HC]

WARNING: LONG

(From your post, I take it you have changed oil at 7500 and 15000, and have a total of 15000 on your rig. )

I wouldn't be alarmed yet, but I would do my next change at 5,000 (20,000 miles total) instead of going the full 7500, and do the analysis again to see what's happening.

Both iron and silicon tend to be high with newer engines. If I adjust for mileage to an "equivalent ppm/5,000 miles", then your readings compare to my earlier readings as follows:

You: 15,000 on engine, iron 45 ppm / 5k, Silicon 14 ppm / 5k

Me: 16,845 on engine, iron 30 ppm / 5k, Silicon 9 ppm / 5k

On the other hand, your copper was 4, mine 1, so you do seem to have slightly higher wear. If it was "excessive", the Monitor comments would have told you that, so don't worry too much.

You were running regular oil, I was running synthetic (Delvac 1), but I don't believe that alone would have caused your numbers to run approximately 50% higher than mine. My mileage was all "road miles", very little stop and go, which should lower my numbers unless you had the same driving conditions. Now, with over 55k, I'm seeing numbers more like Fe at 17 ppm, Si at 3 ppm, so you can see I have trended down dramatically as miles on engine increased. (Also, I use Amsoil 5W-30 now. ) If your next analysis shows iron and silicon trending down, then maybe it is nothing but break-in wear. Also, I suspect your driving may be "severe duty", possibly due to more city miles, in which case you don't want to go 7500 between changes anyway. But I do Closing comment: I agree with the others, nose around and check for possible air filter leaks, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Bigsaint]

This may help, here are two of my samples from Blackstone Labs, along with a understanding guide.



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Scott W.

 

[David Wheeler]

Big Saint

On your Blackstone report, doesn't "Makeup Oil" refer to any oil you've added since your actual oil change to makeup for any burned or lost? I'm sure I'm just incorrect, but want to check just the same as I'm getting ready to start using Blackstone as my lab as well. TIA!!



David

 

[Bigsaint]

Negative !!!! Guess they used that slot to list the oil replaced when doing the change, I have never added a drop in between changes.



Scott W.

 

[DocStressor]

David -- That these guys are saying is on the money:



1. You are being advised to watch the Fe and Si levels at the next change. They are not too high for a second oil change (note Big Saint's numbers!) but they are a little higher than would be expected for a fully broken in engine. Every engine has a unique wear pattern, especially during break in.



2. Some oil from your original fill will have been carried over into your present sample. You would expect the wear metals and Si to be higher than normal just because of this factor alone.



3. You have some fuel dilution which suggests severe operation (short trips, cool weather). You might consider going to a shorter change interval (4-5K) until you switch to synthetic. You can switch to synthetic once your wear metal patern has stabilized and it looks like it probably already has. There is no advantage to additional break in using conventional oil.



In other words, I don't see any real problems here.

 

[David Muench]

Thanks for the info. I wouldn't be too surprised on the air cleaner deal. I was using a K&N in the stock box (greased properly though) from about 3k until about 13k or so. Now I'm using the moparguy big honking filter. My driving is not city really, pretty much highway. I recieved the truck in late jan, and since I live in the northeast, a lot of it's initial breakin was in the cold. I've also got about 3k of towing (though not heavy towing, yet) in there.



Sounds like I'll go with the plan to switch to a bypass setup at 20k and go synthetic.



One other loaded question - any reason to switch to Blackstone from Fleetguard? Fleetguard is a lot more cost effective it would seem.



Thanks again.

 

[DocStressor]

Here's a reason not to use Blackstone: They don't report TBN or oxidation levels of the oil unless you specifically request these tests and pay extra for them. Blackstone's analysis is designed for OTR trucks that usually condemn oil after wear metal levels exceed certain limits. Unless you put miles on your oil at a rate comparable to a commercial highway trucker, you need to be concerned about TBN and oxidation. They are the indicators that warn you about impending oil breakdown with shorter trips and longer time intervals between changes. Once the TBN and oxidation limits are exceeded, wear metals increase real fast.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Where do you send oil to get TBN or oxidation levels checked?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Let's maintain a bit of perspective here... TBN values are nice, and undoubtedly NEEDED by those using *extended* mileage oil changes - but those of us NOT doing the extended changes won't benefit particularly from those readings - especially when extra charges are applied! CERTAINLY, if a respected analysis outfit INCLUDES those readings at the same base analysis charge, it's a no-brainer!



As I recall, Blackstone charged me $17 for my last analysis - minus the TBN percentages - what do the outfits who DO include TBN charge?

 

[JJW_ND]

CTC Analytical.....Good Lab and Good rates

The last 10 pack I bought from CTC (this spring) was $95.



That $9. 50 gets you a full analysis including TBN (or TAN if gearboxes) and the containers are Freight prepaid, no shipping cost, just drop in the mail. They have several labs around the country. I send mine to Cleveland. I can highly recomend them.



http://www.ctclink.com/



I would attach a copy of the report, but the 400 x 400 makes it unreadable.



jjw

ND

 

[DocStressor]

CTC is about the best deal out there. Oil Analyzers (The guys associated with Amsoil. Aargh! ) charge $14-$15 including postage paid both ways depending on the dealer. I've switched over to them from Blackstone since I got the diesel. They provide TBN plus %oxidation and nitration for the base price.



If you are not doing extended drain intervals, there is really no reason to pay for any type of oil analysis. Unless of course you are a obsessive-compulsive type who wants to learn if one particular oil is better than others under your particular operating conditions.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Lee sez:



"If you are not doing extended drain intervals, there is really no reason to pay for any type of oil analysis. "



Yup - I tend to agree - tho' an OCASSIONAL check might be in order to assure no fuel/coolent migration/contamination problems that might otherwise go unnoticed...



The main reason I had my own checked was due to disparaging remarks about the K&N air filter and Frantz toilet paper oil filter (I use both) - my test came back with excellent numbers, so one or BOTH filters must be doing SOMETHING right!



But it DOES seem that we "automotive fanatics" too often pay several HUNDRED percent EXTRA for products and services we DON'T need to get a paltry . 0001% benefit (or LESS!) in return...

 

[DocStressor]

Yeah. I was gonna say that too.

 

[Extreme1]

Hense the term "Fanatic"...

Gary,

How about:

The K&N leaks like a seive but that bypass you are using filters so well it doesn't matter.



JUST KIDDING!!!