Oil analysis "flags"

[zippinbye]

I just got the results from my first CJ-4 oil change (truck in sig). Rotella T Full Synthetic 5w-40 run for 7091 miles (about 8 mo. in service), drained with about 52,000 on odometer. It's only my second analysis ever - the first was on CI-4, showed no anomalies. This one flagged for Silicon (40 ppm) and Viscosity @100 degrees (13. 6). Test performed at local big-rig lubrication business. Their notes say "silicon most likely from source other than dirt, possibly engine sealant (gasket material) and/or oil additive. Viscosity higher than typical for the given oil type. Drain oil and change filter if not already done. Re-sample at next service interval to monitor. " The sample has been on the shelf for a while, perhaps six months. I'm up over 5000 miles on the identical oil, and wonder if I should sample it, or could these numbers be normal for the truck, but "out of the box" relative to the station's parameters?



BTW, no oil additives beyond what might be in it out of the jug. Never turned a bolt on the engine, so there is no new sealant, nor any leaks whatsoever.



Any thoughts? Or references to help me better interrupt the test? I found a sample test on the Internet for a Detroit Diesel (obviously a very different animal) that had similar Silicon and Viscosity numbers, but the results fell in the "normal" range. "



Thanks!

 

[DaveHess]

I seem to remember Horizon telling me that 20ppm for Silicon was the upper limit. Not sure. I'll have to check my records.

 

[steved]

I would ask them to run the analysis again...



If the silicon is real, you could have a leaking air filter. However, you stated it was left in the sample container... I wonder if it may have leached something from the container?



Don't get too hung up on the viscosity, 11. 6-14. 8 is the range provided by Blackstone for my analysis... my oil (schaeffer 5w40) came back 15. 44, some oil viscosity run higher than others.

 

[GaryOwen]

Shell website listed Rotella Synthetic 5w40 as a viscosity of 15. 5@100 degrees - looks like viscosity is good.

 

[zippinbye]

Steved - Good call on the container. I prefer glass, but this was some sort of soft plastic that I liked due to a very solid seal on the cap, maybe had silicone content. Also, this was my first run with an Airaid intake. While I am uncertain why an air leak (as you suggested) could throw the silicone figure, I did use the filter spray that came with the Airaid. Maybe some silcone in it? I'm using AFE spray now, so I'll check to see if it's silicone-free. Either way, you opened my eyes to more than one possible explanation. Thanks!

 

[DieselFiend]

Zippin, interesting that you mention the silicone. My last couple of samples have come up high in silicone. I suspect that if you have dirt getting past the air filter, it will show high silicone because of silicone/rubber particles that other cars stir up on the road. They eventually get to your air filter and maybe through it. Can anyone chime in on this theory?

 

[GaryOwen]

Sand (silica) is converted to silicon in the combustion process in the engine. So any sand entering through the intake will result in silicon, some of which will enter the oil.



I had an Airaid filter on my 03 and never had elevated silcon levels.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Something to keep in mind where oil analysis is concerned, is how pure and free of contaminants the oil is right from the bottle! Here's a sample of some NEW oils (lifted from the BITOG oil site), including Delo 400 CI4-Plus - check out the Iron and Aluminum levels - as well as the Silicon:



#ad




In the case of Silicone and Aluminum in my own '02 engine, my Aluminum actually IMPROVED over new oil in 20K miles - and Silicon remained essentially unchanged:



#ad




AND, I might point out that when that analysis was done, I was still using a K&N oiled filter...



.

 

[CKelley1]

i spotted your problem instantly, i have seen it several times and you are destroying the engine like the sample shows. clean the airaid filter and hold it up to the light and you can see daylight around the stitches, they are as bad as the k&n. go back to stock, sorry for your engine wear.

 

[AH64ID]

Viscosity goes up quicker on the 04. 5+ trucks because of the in-cylinder EGR. . so it seems fairly normal, thou a bypass will help that.

What were your contaminates at?

On my last 2 UOA's 19ppm was a 0, normal, and 29 was a 1, still normal. On my wifes 4Runner she had 38ppm and it was a 2.

 

[GaryOwen]

i spotted your problem instantly, i have seen it several times and you are destroying the engine like the sample shows. clean the airaid filter and hold it up to the light and you can see daylight around the stitches, they are as bad as the k&n. go back to stock, sorry for your engine wear.

Funny that my Airaid filter always gave great silicon results, must have gotten a good one. BTW, OP did not mention having any results being flagged that indicated actual engine wear, only elevated silicon level.

 

[zippinbye]

Of course CKelly1, you have my attention over the Airaid. I know they are not the most popular aftermarket filter, but I have never heard such concern and a number of members run them. Not sure about your comment regarding damage. What effect would Silicon at 40 ppm have on an engine, with other wear metals in the norm? While you may be right that the Airaid let me down, I have not eliminated filter spray oil and or the sample container as culprits. Obviously, that's what I am trying to determine. BTW, the inlet collar immediately behind the Airaid is a clean swipe with a white cloth ... no physical evidence of infiltration.



Indeed, wear metals did not trigger an alarm except the Silicon. I didn't get to scan my test, but here's all the numbers:

Aluminum 7, Chromium 10, Copper 4, Iron 31, Lead 2, Tin <2, Silicon 40, Potassium 3, Sodium <2, Moly 31. Physical properties: Water <. 1, Oxidation <2. 0, Visc@100 13. 6, Glycol ND, Fuel <2. 0, TBN 7. 6, Nitration 4. 6, Soot 0. 8

 

[steved]

Silicon itself is not the issue... its the dirt that it is derived from that causes it.



In short, its termed "dusting"... and it will destroy an engine in short order.

 

[gjones813]

Zig, here's some readings from my last oil change on my 07 5. 9L with 34,000 miles and 9,000 on the oil, visco on yours seems fine, as far as the silicon readings I don't know, but I do run stock paper filters on mine, but did for a short time tried a K&N but after getting warned so much to remove it I did.



copper- 15

Iron - 33

Chromium- 2

Alum- 9

lead- 1

SN- 0

Silc- 3

sodium- 5

Potas- 25

Moly- 44

Calcium- 995

Magn- 797

Zinc- 1050

Positive- 848------------don't know what this is, maybe there grading?

Antifreeze- none

Water- none

Fuel- none

Visco@ 100* C - 14. 3

9,000 miles on this sample with non syn 15w40 Val premium blue, stock air filter, fleetguard stratuspore filter, this is the longest I ever ran oil before.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[JWadford]

silicon is from dirt entry just like sodium is burned coolant

 

[CKelley1]

even if you were to find a airaid or k&n that did not pass light they only filter to about 94. 6 % another way of saying this is they pass 5. 4 % of the dirt that enters them. and i will bet his filter passes daylight and is a lot less than 94. 6% why would you want to damage a motor from using a oiled filter and then spend money on better oil. change the filter to dry and then change the oil retest after same milage and your problem will be gone.

 

[zippinbye]

Just tested the oil I'm currently running. Silicon at 17 now. Speedco (Las Vegas lube shop) has a parameter of 30 being abnormal, 60 severe (was at 40 before). Most other measurements were the same or similar (viscosity identical to the tenth). Oil, filter and operation conditions the same as before, but 5200 miles now and just under 7100 on the other. Known variables: high silicon sample was stored about 6 mos. in a plastic bottle, this one was drawn into a glass bottle, and tested in about 1 hr. Also, Airaid had been treated with unknown brand oil spray (had silcone content maybe?), this time Airaid was toward the the end of a cleaning cycle that had started with AFE oil spray. CKelly1, does that still lead you to think the air filter is inadequate? I'll certainly rethink its safety vs. benefit, but I don't see a smoking gun. I'm leaning toward the oil sample storage bottle or filter spray as the silicon culprit.

 

[CKelley1]

do not take my word for it. call cummins and ask them, they even had bulletins out on them. we run a fleet of dodges and buy an occasional used one, i have personally seen the damage from them. i keep a airaid in the shop to show our mechanics how bad they are. also contact turbo people like htt or people like psm and ask for a filter efficiency chart. cummins has a test booth set up to watch the filter in operation and a chart is also available. we get over 1,000,000 miles out of our motors with out blowby. i have one truck that had a k&n in it when we got it at 50,000 miles, it has more blow buy than the high milage trucks.

 

[macdaddy]

C Kelly... ... .



Question?

What do you hear on the AFE drop ins?. I have had this thing in since it was new. It seems to be working just fine. I clean it once a year with no change on the filter minder.



The truck sees very little off roading (usually just to pull off the road for dirt biking) and thats it. I have the cool tube from Geno's and remove it at each oil change for filter accessability. I have yet to notice any dirt or other particulates on the tube going to the turbo, or the turbo itself.



It's a seven micron well oiled.



Mac



Edit... ...



I did a search and found out what i needed.

 

[amsoilman]

when you say 7 micron well oil'd, what is the efficiency of it? A screen door can remove 1 micron dirt particles, but is not very efficient at doing so, probably less than 2 percent.