Oil Analysis!! Need help decifering!

[DieselFiend]

Hey fellas, got my first oil sample burned at 21,000. Just need some semi-expert opinions on the results.

Here's some basic information. Truck as 21,000 on it. Oil had 10,000 miles on it. Using AMSOIL 15W-40 synthetic.

Here's the numbers.

LEAD 1

COPPER 5

IRON 45

CHROME 1

ALUMIN 7

SILICON 5

TIN 1

SODIUM 4

MOLY 1

NICKEL 2



SOOT 163

OXI 685

NIT 50

SUL 391



VISCOSITY40C 30. 0

H2O NO





What does all this mean? The tech said it looked good but soot was high. She said it was probably due to lack of air filtration. One thing the test didn't reveal was percentage of fuel in the oil.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

For your oil brand/type, and mileage on the oil, it looks pretty decent - not sure what type/unit of measurement that analyzer uses for specifying soot level, so hard to comment. I use Blackstone, and their soot level is expressed as "insolubles" - here's a sample of my own Delo 400 15/40 at 20k miles for comparison:



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[DieselFiend]

Show off!! HA HA!!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Show off!! HA HA!!

Actually, I "cheat" to get those good reports - notice that I use a Frantz oil bypass filter to assist my engine lube system - it works well, and always delivers excellent test results, as well as a dipstick that looks like this at the 5000 mile mark:



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[DieselFiend]

With this oil, I was using a napa gold filter. I noticed the media in a napa gold filter is paper also, not far off from the FRAM. So, when I changed the oil I switched over to a fleetguard. The media appears to be a much higher quality. Anyone else want to chime in on my results? Does high soot mean a bad air filter? I've heard all these engines usually run high in soot regardless.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

With this oil, I was using a napa gold filter. I noticed the media in a napa gold filter is paper also, not far off from the FRAM. So, when I changed the oil I switched over to a fleetguard. The media appears to be a much higher quality. Anyone else want to chime in on my results? Does high soot mean a bad air filter? I've heard all these engines usually run high in soot regardless.

Even the best full flow filters are relatively ineffective in controlling/reducing soot levels in engine lube because they can't filter down to small enough particle sizes. For better soot control, any of several popular aftermarket bypass oil filtration setups are the way to go.

 

[amsoilman]

Hey fellas, got my first oil sample burned at 21,000. Just need some semi-expert opinions on the results.

Here's some basic information. Truck as 21,000 on it. Oil had 10,000 miles on it. Using AMSOIL 15W-40 synthetic.

Here's the numbers.

LEAD 1

COPPER 5

IRON 45

CHROME 1

ALUMIN 7

SILICON 5

TIN 1

SODIUM 4

MOLY 1

NICKEL 2



SOOT 163

OXI 685

NIT 50

SUL 391



VISCOSITY40C 30. 0

H2O NO





What does all this mean? The tech said it looked good but soot was high. She said it was probably due to lack of air filtration. One thing the test didn't reveal was percentage of fuel in the oil.

What was the Company that did this analysis?



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[john3976]

Actually, I "cheat" to get those good reports - notice that I use a Frantz oil bypass filter to assist my engine lube system - it works well, and always delivers excellent test results, as well as a dipstick that looks like this at the 5000 mile mark:



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From looking at the dip stick I would say next time you might want to try putting the oil into the engine instead draining a little out of the new bottle to send to the lab!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

From looking at the dip stick I would say next time you might want to try putting the oil into the engine instead draining a little out of the new bottle to send to the lab!

 

[Nate]

No kidding huh. My oil is dirtier than than after I put fresh stuff in and fire it up :-laf

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

The tech said it looked good but soot was high. She said it was probably due to lack of air filtration. One thing the test didn't reveal was percentage of fuel in the oil.

Wouldn't high soot be from the 600-series 3rd injection event? Everyone knows how fast the oil turns black, the report seems to confirm it. Kinda pokes a hole in Cummins' theory of "cleaner burning, less frequent oil changes needed. "



Rest of report looks good to me, wear metals are good, 45ppm iron is decent for 10,000 miles with stock filtration.

 

[MMeier]

Since we are on an analysis kick again , maybe someone can help me with my last 2. They both came back showing " abnormal" amounts of copper, lab says "possibly from lube oil cooler" . Staveley services did these up. test @87k showed 102PPM of copper, last test @ 107k showed 132 PPM. Any ideas? Radiator coolant looks like it just came out of the bottle, no oily looking stuff in there.....

 

[AK RAM]

You guys' silicon levels are pretty good. Post what air filters your using.

 

[DieselFiend]

Western States Caterpiller in boise did my oil analysis. I use a FRAM air hog air filter in mine. I'd say it's doing a good job.

 

[amsoilman]

Since we are on an analysis kick again , maybe someone can help me with my last 2. They both came back showing " abnormal" amounts of copper, lab says "possibly from lube oil cooler" . Staveley services did these up. test @87k showed 102PPM of copper, last test @ 107k showed 132 PPM. Any ideas? Radiator coolant looks like it just came out of the bottle, no oily looking stuff in there.....

Here is some info I recieved from a filltration course I recently attended. This info came from Caterpiller.



"Per Caterpillar, high levels of copper found in oil analysis are a result of engine cooler core” leaching". The Zinc additive in Diesel Motor oil reacts with the copper cooler core tubes at high oil temperatures. This chemical reaction results in copper oxidation products forming on the surface of the tubes and then coming off into the oil as it washes over and around the tubes. Heat is a catalyst to this chemical reaction. The higher the oil temperature the greater the rate of oxidation and the longer the reaction process is sustained. This does not cause any damage to the cooler core, or to the engine. However, you will see the copper reading elevate to over 100 PPM. Copper is not a particulate in this case but is in solution in the oil. The PPM will start relatively low and increase over 100 PPM and stay at high levels for several intervals, and then return to normal. During the oxidation process, a hard film forms on the tube surfaces exhibiting the appearance of clear varnish. Changes in operating temperatures, and/or changing oil brands can chemically disrupt this film and begin the oxidative leaching processes again. This can occur in any system with a cooler core: Gasoline or Diesel engines transmissions or hydraulic systems. "





Hope this will help you.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[blacksheep4x4]

As far as the soot level is concerned Amsoil has came out with a new oil filter to deal with this. I wouldn't use a Fram air filter if my life depended on it IMO! Try using another brand like Afe, Donaldson, Amsoil, or atleast a Wix, and see what your levels end up being. Your Napa gold oil filter is basically a Wix filter and on other posts people have said not to use them (something about not holding up to oil pressure spikes the Cummins can put out). Try another brand of oil filter aswell like Fleetguard, donaldson,or Amsoil. I know the Napas are cheaper, but you get what you pay for. Yes I am a Amsoil dealer, but notice I added other brands to my recommendations. Just trying to help you get better results on your analysis.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Riflesmith - a TDR member has posted the following oil analysis report over on the Bobistheoilguy.com board - makes a pretty decent comparison - only surprise to me was the reading of Boron in that Amsoil - don't remember seeing Boron in Amsoil before:

Here is my latest analysis of Amsoil 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil after 15,000 miles in my modified Cummins 24 valve engine. The engine has been dynoed at 380HP/850ft-lb torque at the wheels, so it is hardly stock. I use Fleetguard Stratapore full flow filters and an Amsoil bypass filter.



Glycol..... Neg

%Water... . <0. 05

%Fuel..... <1. 0

Visc@100C. . 11. 2

%Solids..... N/A

%Soot..... <1. 0

%Oxd... ... . 16. 7

%Nox... ... . 10. 0

TBN... ..... 12. 7

Iron... ..... 26

Chromium..... 0

Lead... ... ... 7

Copper... ... 13

Tin... ... ... . 1

Aluminum..... 8

Nickel... ... . 0

Manganese... . 2

Silicon... ... 4

Boron... ... . 34

Sodium... ... . 0

Magnesium... . 5

Calcium... 4289

Barium... ... . 0

Phosphorus1241

Zinc... ... 1341

Molybdenum... 0

Titamium..... 0

Vanadium..... 0

Cadmium... ... 0



Air filtration is an Amsoil oiled foam filter.

 

[DieselFiend]

Blacksheep, while I agree with you to some level, I disagree with you about the air filter. I'm not talking about the FRAM OEM replacement filter (which I wouldbn't use). I'm talking about the free flow aftermarket air hog. Compared side by side to the K & N, the air hog is a little bit thicker and the material looks to be of better compression. I was skeptical at first but after 10,000 miles, some in very dusty conditions, i'd have to say I'm impressed with it. It's a very solid, quality made air filter. Check one out for yourself. They cost about the same as a K&N.

I cut open the NAPA gold oil filter and found the media inside not much different than a FRAM. I switched over to a fleet guard and we'll see what happens with the next oil sample. I suspect the numbers will be quite lower with the new oil filter.

 

[blacksheep4x4]

Blacksheep, while I agree with you to some level, I disagree with you about the air filter. I'm not talking about the FRAM OEM replacement filter (which I wouldbn't use). I'm talking about the free flow aftermarket air hog. Compared side by side to the K & N, the air hog is a little bit thicker and the material looks to be of better compression. I was skeptical at first but after 10,000 miles, some in very dusty conditions, i'd have to say I'm impressed with it. It's a very solid, quality made air filter. Check one out for yourself. They cost about the same as a K&N.

I cut open the NAPA gold oil filter and found the media inside not much different than a FRAM. I switched over to a fleet guard and we'll see what happens with the next oil sample. I suspect the numbers will be quite lower with the new oil filter.

I wouldn't use a K&N either. I have looked at an air hog. Didn't like what I saw. If you get a chance look at a AFE you'll see what I mean when you compare the two.