Oil Analysis results, 22,500 on oil.

[Riflesmith]

Here are the results from my latest oil analysis. The oil is Amsoil 5W-30 heavy duty diesel oil. The full flow filter is the LF-3894 Stratapore. I have the Amsoil bypass filter system installed(it has been on the truck as long as the Amsoil has been in it). I have had samples analyzed at 7,500 mi, 15,000 mi, and now 22,500 mi. The results follow:

All values are in ppm by weight unless specified.


7500 15000 22500
Aluminum 1 2 3

Chromium 0 1 2

Copper 3 8 14

Iron 3 28 41

Lead 1 5 6

Nickel 1 0 0

Silver 0 0 0

Tin 11 1 2

Molybdenum 0 0 1

Silicon 4 8 10

Antifreeze 0 0 0

Water % 0 0 0

Soot (% trans) 0 0 0

Oxidation (% allow) 0 0 0

Nitration (%allow) 0 0 0

Sulfur (% allow) 0 0 0

Viscosity (SUS) 250 285 300

Incidentally, I am running the K&N RE-0880 air filter. I always take my samples from the center-well of the full flow filter immediately upon removal. This seems like the most valid sample point to me due to the fact that this oil is the oil going to your bearings. I believe some are taking their sample from the clean side of the bypass filter. This is not a representative sample and will lead you to believe things are better than they actually are.


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99,2500,ISB,QC,6sp,3. 54,4x4, turbo silencer ring removed, Scotty System, B&W Turnover Ball Gooseneck Hitch, Amsoil Bypass Oil Filter System/Amsoil 3000 Oil. ISSPRO Boost and Pyro Guages, Apprentice member of BOMB.

 

[TwoSlick]

RifleSmith,

Actually you want to take sample from the mid level of the sump, not after the oil has been filtered. This way you get a better idea of the wear metal concentrations. I would agree about NOT taking samples from the clean side of the by-pass filter, BTW.

Your analysis and wear metal data looks fine, but you really should be getting a test done to measure the total base number (TBN). This is a measure of reserve alkalinity - in other words how much more acid the oil is able to neutralize. TBN depletion is generally the limiting factor in how long you can run Amsoil or Delvac 1. The exception to this would be an EGR equipped diesel, like the VW TDI, where soot concentration is often the limiting factor.

I would strongly suggest getting the analysis done by Oil Analyzers if you are using Amsoil. They are more familiar with the formulation chemistry that Amsoil uses and will be better able to advise you as to the condition of the used oil. They also test for TBN and do the viscosity test @ 100C (212F), which is more representative of the viscosity of the oil at operating temp.

The other thing about this analysis that looks odd is that oxidation/nitration are both 0. 0%. I've been providing oil analysis for my customers (through OA) on a number of vehicles over the past six years and I've never seen one without some oil degradation. The fact that your viscosity is increasing tells me that you do have some insoluble particles in suspension, so I would question this result.

TooSlick

 

[CumminsPower98]

TwoSlick, how do you take a sample from the mid level of the sump? Also when doing extended drain periods do you drain the filter back into the engine or just add that much more new oil to make up the difference? I am running Amsoil 5W30 HD Diesel oil also and will be having it analyzed at filter changes every 6k or so. This is my first Ram and first time to run Amsoil. Thanks, Mark

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Red 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 Quad Cab, CTD 12 Valve, Long Bed, 5-speed, 3. 54 gears, Camper/Tow pkg, 33x12. 50x16. 5 BFG A/T's, Rancho RS9000 Shocks, Tuff Country Leveling Kit, Straight Piped, K&N Air Filter, Silencer Ring Hanging in Shop, Yet to be Bombed, 70K+ Miles. My web site: www.mark74.com

 

[John Berger]

Good post, but how do you go about getting a kit?

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1999 Dodge Ram 3500 Quad Cab 2wd; 5 spd; 4:10 LSD rear; Mag-Hytec differential cover; US Gear EGT and Boost gauges. Stewart Warner Fuel Pressure Gauge with dual senders, Westach Oil Temp Gauge for differential. Rancho 9000's on order, PowerEdge EZ Box, Amsoil foam air filter and synthetics in the motor and differential. Cummins Power, don't leave home without it

 

[DocStressor]

I'm going to jump in here for my buddy TooSlick. The OA test kits are available from any Amsoil dealer for about $15 with postage paid both ways. I agree that OA is the way to go for diesels and have just switched over from Blackstone myself. Blackstone seems to cater to OTR truckers who seem to be more interested in wear metal accumulation than other oil properties. For extended drains you need to know the residual TBN, % oxidation and nitration, and high temperature viscosity. Blackstone will do these analyses, but they cost extra.

It is very difficult to take a mid sump sample from a Cummins without actually draining the oil. The standard method is to sample through the dipstick tube, which is hard to do with the Cummins. I have tried this several times myself without success using thin PVC tubing and a syringe. I just purchased a sampling gun from OA and will post to let you know if this works any better.

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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags,Reese Titan V hitch, Mag-Hytec differential cover with Amsoil 2000 75W-90 lube, Amsoil air filter

 

[Riflesmith]

I didn't include the TBN numbers because my testing lab failed to perform this test on my latest sample. They are sending me a sample kit and will repeat the entire analysis for nothing. My prior TBN readings: 7500 miles;13. 1, 15000 miles;11. 7.

As far as my sample location goes, I will stay consistent with mine. I feel I am already using the best oil currently available. I do not need to monitor wear metals in my unfiltered oil as much as I need an analysis to tell me when it is time to change the oil. It also tells me if the bypass filter is doing the job(notice the soot numbers). I also feel that 41ppm iron after 22,500 miles is a pretty good number.

 

[TwoSlick]

CumminsPower98,

As Lee mentioned, you use a suction pump to draw out a sample throught the dipstick tube. It helps if you cut the bottom of the tube off at a 45 degree angle. My Tacoma has a restriction at the bottom of the dipstick tube (perhaps a second O-ring?) and it's very difficult to get the tube past this point.

You can also sample using a "Fumoto" drain valve, as long as you sample right after shutdown and allow some oil to flow out(perhaps eight ounces)before taking the sample. The heavier insolubles will tend to settle to the bottom of the sump, however I feel this adds a degree of conservatism to the analysis. In other words the actual oil condition will be a bit better than the analysis results would indicate. Given the replacement cost of a 5. 9, 24 valve engine, this is not a bad idea.

You want to dump the oil in the filter @ your 6k changes and topoff the crankcase - this helps to replenish the additive levels in the oil and dilutes contaminents ... .

Riflesmith,

The TBN numbers are excellent - I find it interesting that the initial TBN of the Amsoil Series 3000 is actually 13+ in this case and not 12+ as advertised? This is a very robust additive package ... .

TooSlick

 

[JJW_ND]

I know I do it the hard way by I have always cracked the plug, caught about 2 quarts then grabbed my sample. Pour the quarts back in and new filter (w/new oil). I have done this every 6K for the last 191K miles.

I have never had a sample that recomended change.

I run the Amsoil 5W30 and dump every 25K. I do NOT have any bypass, only Stratapore filter.

jjw
ND

 

[redram]

Riflesmith,

If you are taking the oil sample from the center of the standard oil filter, you are indeed taking a filtered sample of oil.

The direction of flow of the oil is from the outer portion of an oil filter through the filtering media (paper or synthetic media [woven fiberglass]) and out through the center port.

This is giving you a reading as to how clean the oil is that is flowing to your bearing and other lubed portions of the engine, but you have no indication of the amount of wear (or lack there of) of the oil coming out of the engine.

This is important information but you are really determining hwo well the oil filter is working, not how well the oil is functioning.

Most single point oil analysis data would be gather from the crankcase system, either at a drain interval, through a pressurized oil port with a quick disconnect, or by using a vacuum pump inserting a tube through the dipstick to a midpoint of the crankcase level. These pumps are available for $25 and use 1/4inch or 5/16 tubing found at hardware stores (HDPE opaque tubing for plumbing ice makers in refrigerators)

You are wise to continue with the same sample point but you may want to add an additional sample point for a comparison, the one after the filter as you are currently doing, to one after the engine to determine wear rates.

Redram

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[TwoSlick]

Redram,

Spectrographic oil analysis only measures very small particles, below a few microns in size, so the levels of wear metals you see will not be affected by full flow filtration. I have been involved with some oil analysis testing on the VW TDI Forum, and from what I can tell, even by-pass filtration will not remove the vast majority of wear metal particles that show up in an oil analysis. Normal sized iron wear particles in particular tend to be very small (below 0. 3 microns), so no filter removes these.

The key to oil analysis is to be consistent in the way you are taking your samples. This way if you have a mechanical problem developing, you can quickly spot it... .

TooSlick

 

[amsoilman]

Riflesmith,
Your oil analysis looks great, continue the way you are doing and you will be fine. I do beleive you should keep track of the TBN values however.

Wayne
amsoilman

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94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.
Wayne Owen

 

[amsoilman]

If any of you are interested in purchasing an oil analysis "pump" to draw oil samples from your Cummins engine, I can provide them for a cost of $24. 50 plus shipping. This is a very high quality hand pump, and includes 10 ft. of plastic hose. E-mail me if you are interested in one of these. They work very well!

Wayne

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94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.
Wayne Owen