oil dilution

[Texas Diesel]

"Oil doesn't really need to be changed regularly in modern engines.



This is truly a myth! In addition to lubricating moving parts, oil is designed to carry combustion by-products away from the pistons and cylinders. Oil must deal with small amounts of water formed as the engine heats and cools and with dirt and dust that enter the engine through the air-intake system. It may also have to deal with fuel leaks (fuel dilution) or coolant leaks into the oil system. The oil filter helps by removing any particles and abrasives, but even a high-quality filter can't remove fuel and other liquid contamination from the oil. Eventually, the oil additives that disperse sludge-forming materials and prevent rust and corrosion are used up. When the additive depletion reaches a certain point, the oil can no longer do its job and must be changed.



The rates at which contamination and additive depletion occur depend on many variables. High underhood temperatures brought about by stop-and-go driving, the use of power accessories, exhaust emission equipment, turbocharging and basic engine misadjustments all contribute to oil deterioration. It is difficult, if not impossible, for the individual motorist to determine when the contamination level is too high.



With all of these factors in mind, automobile manufacturers recommend oil changes at certain time or mileage intervals. These oil change recommendations vary depending upon model and manufacturer, and with the type of service under which the vehicle customarily operates. More frequent oil changes are always recommended for severe service. "



http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp Sorry the link wont take you to the right page.

 

[R.E. Miller]

Yeah, this is why I just have to laugh at the "NEW" people in the diesel pick-up arena who are smart enough to buy a diesel but dumb enough to say that they can idle all day and you can change the oil like the big rigs... every 15,000. Righty-O neighbor

Russell

 

[Texas Diesel]

Yep I agree with you. Mine gets dead dinos and gets changed @ 4500 mi. I bet the engine will outlast the body.

 

[illflem]

It's good to remember that the oil companies and auto makers are very conservative on their oil change interval recommendations. I've gone 10k on a Delo oil change with an oil analysis saying that the oil was still good to go, wear metals were also still low. Now that we have oil analysis equipment at work ( = free!) I'll be doing some more checks, but I feel 5k petro oil changes even in extreme driving conditions are very safe.

 

[Pit Bull]

I'm with you I will be using Rotella T every 5K miles, not that much money to keep my baby safe.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Big Toy:



Next time you change oil look in the bottom of the Rotella T bottle.

I noticed that most of the additive package settled out of the oil and I had to shake a half empty bottle to get it mixed up. I switched to Delo because of that reason.

 

[DennyDay]

Oil Change

I've said this before, but repeat after me----



Oil is cheap

Engines are expensive





Using Delo at about $5. /gal over 150. 000 miles, changing at 5,000 miles the total oil cost is $450. 00. Pretty cheap insurance

And what does the book say?

Denny

 

[kcjayco]

Has anyone looked at the recomended interval Cummins gives for oil changes? 15,000 miles or one year for the ISB. My owners maual from Dodge recomends 3,000 for severe service, which covers almost all conditions except strickly highway with few stops and starts and no towing. Mine pulls a trailer most of the time if it's not parked. I know Cummins is considering a medium duty truck application and Dodge has to consider the average person that runs a diesel and lets it idle and so forth. No diesel engine manufactures recomends idling anymore. Most recomend no more than five minutes. I use Delo 400 15/40 in the engine and Chevron 75/90 synthetic in the differentials. Normal changes for me are 5,000 miles for oil and 15,000 for fuel filter.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Texas Diesel

Big Toy:



Next time you change oil look in the bottom of the Rotella T bottle.

I noticed that most of the additive package settled out of the oil and I had to shake a half empty bottle to get it mixed up. I switched to Delo because of that reason.

The additive package settled out???????



The proof here is what???



I like Delo, and ran Rotella before the final switch. I never noticed the additives seperating out.



Gene

 

[Texas Diesel]

In the bottom of *most* (depends on how long it sat at the store) you can see the additives laying on the bottom of the bottles. Shake a half full bottle and the stuff laying on the bottom goes away. I think it must be the heavy parts.

 

[illflem]

Chevron recommends using Delo within one year of the date of manufacture stamped on it. This is to avoid what they call additive fallout.

 

[Sled Puller]

I wouldn't worry about it. Prolly just dirt or dead dino parts!



I would like a sample of the sludge, to see what it really was!





Gene

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Texas Diesel

Big Toy:



Next time you change oil look in the bottom of the Rotella T bottle.

I noticed that most of the additive package settled out of the oil and I had to shake a half empty bottle to get it mixed up. I switched to Delo because of that reason.

Thanks for the advise, but I must be getting all of them because it stinks pretty bad for the first 500 miles after the change

 

[Texas Diesel]

Found out how to get to the article again.



http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp highlight "Why Synthetics" then go to "Myths about synthetics" then look towards the bottom of the page.



Still a confusing issue to me because stationary engines and big rigs go mucho miles between changes. Perhaps *near* continous operation and huge oil sumps make a difference Exactly what is synthetic oil? Some appear to be dino guts with synthetic additives (whatever that is) How do people here post oil analysis' that indicate normal oil parameters with high mileage



What about the wild claims that Slick50 and Duralube used to make before the Government slppped them down, how do we know that the claims made by syn-oil manufactures wont turn out to be false too? After all, many an engine has gone 500,000+ on dino guts. I really wish I could find out definitively, but it the mean time I'll keep fresh dino guts in her. If any one has links to studies (please-no propaganda) post them here, I would hate to pass on syn-oil if it really is worth the extra $.

 

[HC]

Originally posted by kcjayco

Has anyone looked at the recomended interval Cummins gives for oil changes? 15,000 miles or one year for the ISB. My owners maual from Dodge recomends 3,000 for severe service, which covers almost all conditions except strickly highway with few stops and starts and no towing... . Normal changes for me are 5,000 miles for oil and 15,000 for fuel filter.

In addition to our tendency towards "short trips", which you already noted, I believe the Cummins uses a larger sump in all applications other than the Dodge, so take that 15,000 with a big grain of salt. I like your 5k "compromise" - it gives an easy to remember number on the odometer. On the fuel filter, I've gone to 10k intervals for two reasons: 1) I had one clog at 14k, and 2) With so much talk about lift pump and VP44 failures, I figure changing at 10k is a bit of cheap insurance (cheap assuming you don't buy the filters from Dodge).

 

[HC]

Originally posted by Texas Diesel

I would hate to pass on syn-oil if it really is worth the extra $.

WARNING: LONG ANSWER!

Are you sure it costs more? For me, it doesn't. Do your own calculations, using the costs that would apply to you, such as whether you pay others for the changes or do them yourself, and how often you would change it with each type of oil.

Relative to "data", if you seach on "oil analysis", you'll find some posts that show some of the folks with Dino oil are showing excellent wear rates. So why use synthetics? One of the longer discussions on this topic can be found here:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4842



I believe that whether or not it is "worth it" depends on a lot of factors that vary from person to person. Low mileage folks are OK with 3k or 5k change intervals, and their engines will outlast the rest of their trucks no matter what they choose. Some high mileage folks don't mind changing, maybe they even have a heated place to do it in the winter, and their engines will outlast their trucks, too. Some people don't mind paying a few bucks to let others do the change for them. The list goes on...



For me, I rack up over 6k per month, don't have a heated garage to do changes in, don't like changing it in 30 degree weather, don't like giving up one of every 3 or 4 Saturdays to work on the truck, and don't want to let the local lube shop under the hood. With bypass filtration and oil analysis, I'm no longer concerned about leaving the oil in too long, and I've got actual data on MY engine and MY driving conditions that shows me I'm not doing harm. So I can feel very comfortable with extended changes. This in turn allows me to do the work myself, I can time filter changes to avoid bad weather, and my total costs are now lower than if I were paying someone else to do 5k changes with Dino oil. As a side bonus, I get data from the oil analysis that will alert me to unrelated problems like coolant leaks, or silicon from bad air filtration. I feel good about being running less oil through my truck than most of those in the "anti-SUV" crowd use in their mini-vans. I also feel like that turbo is going to last a little longer.



Cons? Yes, even I can think of a few. I've got more oil lines, so I have to admit I've got more potential for an oil leak than someone running only a full flow filter. I had to install the bypass. I will have to be sure that when it is time to pull the engine, the mechanic knows about the extra oil lines. At certain speeds, the Amsoil dual remote transmits some humming noises through the oil lines. (After two weeks, I rarely notice any more. ) If any of this this worries you, you could always extend your intervals to 10k or 15k, without bypass filtration. Some go longer. This strategy brings Dino and Synthetic very close on costs, with no extra complications. That's what I was doing for the first 70k.



The bottom line for me is that I'm spending less money, and spending less time on my truck. Even if it did cost me a little more, I'd be willing to pay just to spend more time on my other hobbies. Your answer may be different; that's OK too!

 

[KB0OU]

BY PASS FILTER

HC, what bypass filter are you using, I use the Puradyne, it works very well, I change oil every 20,000 to 25,000 miles using Shell Rotella 15/40.

This gives me two trips to Alaska plus a little on a oil change, never get a bad oil analysis.

I think the engine will out last all the other stuff!!

 

[HC]

I'm using the Amsoil Dual Remote. I'm not unhappy with it, but if I were doing it again today I would also look closely at some of the other options, including Amsoil single bypasses and OilGuard. The install was recent, so I don't have any "before and after" oil analysis results yet.

I think the Puradyn is probably an even better set-up; but since I have a high percentage of "over the road" miles I felt I could get by without the extra heating elements to boil off moisture, keeping my system a bit simpler. Also, I was looking for "kits" where mounting details and all the piece-parts came with the package with no need to find or buy extra fittings, etc.



KB0OU, I like the fact that you're using bypass filtration with Dino oil, because it makes a good point: Bypass filters and oil analysis are NOT just for us synthetic fans! You're running cleaner oil that's better for your engine, saving big $$$, and reducing waste oil disposal.

 

[Texas Diesel]

This kinda cinched it for me:



"I've used only Rotella-T 15-40 Multigrade in my engines and I've never experienced any oil-related wear, and/or failues, and change the oil & filter (fleetguard) at 3000 miles. I have, however, seen hundreds of trucks come into and out of the shop and the ones I have to mop up the oil after are those running on the Amsoil formula with all the remote filters and bypasses and pre-lubers, etc. I have never seen in my life more oil leaks from both new engines and some as old as 250000 miles as I see from the Amsoil soaked ones. Regular petroleum formulas have anti-scuff, anti-acid and anti-soot additives that the synthetics do not. Why? They are not meant for use in Diesels. Big rigs change their oil at 30000 mile intervals for a reason, OIL CAPACITY. When using 40 or more quarts of oil, you tend not to contaminate it as quickly, allowing for the extended drain interval. The Cummins B series in the Dodge pickups have a seriously small oil pan compared to those in bulldozers and farm equipment, so we should not play with extended drain intervals with our small oil pans which are there to clear the ground and the front axle. I personally have rebuilt B series which were run on Amsoil and other synthetic formulas for extended drain intervals which were tested from time to time. The wristpins in these engines have shown a significant amount of wear that are indicative of oil-related engine wear. Overhauls of comparable engines of similar mileage run on petroleum based oils do not show any similar wear on the wristpins. Are synthetic diamonds as good as those mother nature produced over millions of years? Is synthetic oil as good as that which mother nature produced over millions of years? I think not. Do you think an oil company is ready to write a check for somewhere in the 5000-10000 dollar range to replace your engine when it stops running. They'll pay an "expert" to say it was due to something besides their oil. They only want your money. " < from the thread you posted



I appreciate you spending an obvious amount of time in replying to this thread, but I think I'll stay with dino stuff. I've heard the same thing from mechanics that rebuild engines run on syn oil. Except they mentioned to me that they noticed "pitting" or some sort of corrosion that wasnt present on engines runs on dino guts. Supposition was that this was because of the extended drain intervals allowing buildup of corrosive compounds. I dont know the answer for sure, and certainly wouldnt critisize you for doing whatever you want to. But given the information I have have, I'm gonna stick with the OEM recommended drain intervals which wont make syn oil cost effective. I guess the only way to say for sure would be to get someone who rebuilds engines for a living AND who gets documented dino vs syn oil one in for rebuild. Then we would have a "control group" to work with. I must be some sort of hypocrite because I run syn oil in the rear axle and would put it in the NV-5600 if there was one available. Thanks for you input.

 

[HC]

Yes, that thread I posted had some very negative things to say about synthetics - and some other, very positive things. I think that was one of the reasons I referenced it - both sides of the argument were represented by people who felt strongly, so it was a somewhat balanced discussion.



I've been coming around to the opinion that extending the drain intervals is risky, no matter what kind of oil you use, UNLESS you also get one of the bypass filtration systems. (Lack of good filtration could easily explain some of the negative reports seen in that other thread I referenced. ) And I can't argue too much with anyone who takes the "sure bet" by going with Dino oil and frequent changes... it is a proven combination.