oil filters

[PGreenleaf]

OK, I bought Genos filter kit for my 06 3500. Now my end cap filter wrench WONT fit the new fluted fleetguard stratapore filter. The wrench fits the fluted Purolater Premium filters I been useing for years. Slides on the end of the purolater perfect, just wont go on the fleetguard noway. Whats with this crap. Makes me wonder if these fleetguard filters are really what there supposed to be.

 

[HBarlow]

OK, I bought Genos filter kit for my 06 3500. Now my end cap filter wrench WONT fit the new fluted fleetguard stratapore filter. The wrench fits the fluted Purolater Premium filters I been useing for years. Slides on the end of the purolater perfect, just wont go on the fleetguard noway. Whats with this crap. Makes me wonder if these fleetguard filters are really what there supposed to be.

Interesting point of view.

You've been using the wrong filter and a filter wrench that fit the incorrect filter.

Your problem is solved. You're using the best filter available for our Cummins engines from a great parts vendor now. Call Geno's and ask them to send the right filter wrench and you'll be in good shape. Or, if you're in a hurry, go back to the auto parts store with a Cummins Fleetguard filter in hand and buy one that fits. From now on you can use the specified filters for your Cummins engine and you'l have the correct filter wrench.

Your engine will like you better.

 

[JMetzger]

AMEN, Harvey is absolutely correct. There are none better when it comes to filters.

 

[MMeier]

Purolator ... ...

 

[Briman]

I had the same problem only it was with fleetgaurd filters. I buy them 12 at a time from Geno's. When I ran out of the last batch I got another 12 from Geno's. The flutes on this new batch are larger then the old ones. I was using one of the nice machined end wrenches that Jeff made. So now I pound the wrench on the end to take them off; and use a strap wrench to tighten them up when putting them on. Something has changed with the stamping.

 

[TimothyLong]

I've run into the fluting issue too. The filters I get directly from Cummins have less flutes than the ones that come from Geno's. Thankfully, I have a filter wrench for each one!

 

[rbattelle]

Purolator ... ...

Alright, what's the problem with Purolator (in general, not for these engines specifically)?



I ask because I've been using Purolators on my Hondas for years.



Ryan

 

[PGreenleaf]

Interesting point of view.



You've been using the wrong filter and a filter wrench that fit the incorrect filter.



Your problem is solved. You're using the best filter available for our Cummins engines from a great parts vendor now. Call Geno's and ask them to send the right filter wrench and you'll be in good shape. Or, if you're in a hurry, go back to the auto parts store with a Cummins Fleetguard filter in hand and buy one that fits. From now on you can use the specified filters for your Cummins engine and you'l have the correct filter wrench.



Your engine will like you better.

I totaly dissagree with you my friend, I havent been useing the wrong filter for my truck. The Purolator Premium Plus # L45335 is made for this engine. And the wrench I got that fits it is the same wrench that Geno sells. Its a 93mm by 15 flute. Fact is I went to 3 different auto parts stores, and tryed all there wrenches, And none would fit the flutes on any of the 4 fleetguard filters I just got from Geno.

I see by this thread I'm not alone on this no fit deal. The bottom line here is second class worksmanship on the production of these filters. Which makes me question the quality of the rest of the filer. I been useing the purolator for years in my cummins, my Harleys and any other vehicles I own.

Nothing wrong with the purolator, I just figgered I,d join the crowd and buy the kit and use the BEST for my baby truck. But I got 4 second class oil filters that the wrench wont fit at $12. 25 plus ft. when I could have stuck with Purolator at $5. 45 pluss tax at most any autoparts store.

Well I'm going to use them up anyway, we'll see if they filter any better.

 

[AH64ID]

AMEN, Harvey is absolutely correct. There are none better when it comes to filters.

Actually there is...



Donaldson and Amsoil sell better oil filters.

 

[Regcabguy]

Call Genos and they'll make it right for you. They always do.

 

[bheiting]

I don't always agree with Harvey on political issues, but he's right on when it comes
to Cummins filtration. Fleetguard filters are a division of Cummins and have been tested
extensively on their engines. I have never seen evidence that Donaldson or Amsoil
are any better. Just because Amsoil charges twice as much doesn't mean they're
better. Amsoil diesel oil is nothing to brag about. Since when does the number of
flutes have anything to do with filter quality????

 

[AH64ID]

I don't always agree with Harvey on political issues, but he's right on when it comes

to Cummins filtration. Fleetguard filters are a division of Cummins and have been tested

extensively on their engines. I have never seen evidence that Donaldson or Amsoil

are any better. Just because Amsoil charges twice as much doesn't mean they're

better. Amsoil diesel oil is nothing to brag about. Since when does the number of

flutes have anything to do with filter quality????

Donaldson/Amsoil are 15um absoulte and designed for extended use. . Stratapore are 25um and not designed for extended use. . nuff said.

 

[BLNRAY]

getting back to the original post,which questioned the integrity of a company, and the quality of a filter ,because his walmart filter wrench didnt fit.

 

[GaryOwen]

I tighten filter by hand only, have never needed a wrench. Service manual says to tighten 1/2 turn after gasket contacts base. I use only Fleetguard filters.

 

[rbattelle]

Wow, this is awesome - an oil filter war! I'm not aware we've ever had one before!

I am of the crowd that believes the best you can get is the Fleetguard Stratopore.

As far as Amsoil and Donaldson having higher micron ratings, isn't it true that with a fixed volume filter the flow rate necessarily decreases with decreasing minimum particle filtration size?

If that's correct, then we must ask whether the improvement in particle filtration is worth the drop in overall oil flow rate.

Particle size is not the only measure of filtration effectiveness - it must always be balanced by a flow rate matched to the system demand. I can make an oil filter that filters to 0. 001 micron absolute, but to fit it into a canister for a Cummins B-series it wouldn't flow enough oil.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not bashing Amsoil or Donaldson. They're not stupid, so they must have considered these things in their filter design. So perhaps the question is, why did each company make the choices they did?

Ryan

 

[AH64ID]

Wow, this is awesome - an oil filter war! I'm not aware we've ever had one before!



I am of the crowd that believes the best you can get is the Fleetguard Stratopore.



As far as Amsoil and Donaldson having higher micron ratings, isn't it true that with a fixed volume filter the flow rate necessarily decreases with decreasing minimum particle filtration size?



If that's correct, then we must ask whether the improvement in particle filtration is worth the drop in overall oil flow rate.



Particle size is not the only measure of filtration effectiveness - it must always be balanced by a flow rate matched to the system demand. I can make an oil filter that filters to 0. 001 micron absolute, but to fit it into a canister for a Cummins B-series it wouldn't flow enough oil.



Don't get me wrong - I'm not bashing Amsoil or Donaldson. They're not stupid, so they must have considered these things in their filter design. So perhaps the question is, why did each company make the choices they did?



Ryan

Well if pressure = flowXrestriction then I can say that the Donaldson/Amsoil doesn't effect flow. I have anywhere from 2x to 3x the required pressure when warm, and more when cold. Yes finer filtering is more restrictive, but that is battled by more surface area.



But you are correct, its why bypass filter are bypass filters, you couldn't get enough surface area with a 2um full-flow. And why my 2um fuel filter is 2x the size of my OE 5um fuel filter.



I'll keep using my 15um filters as the finer the filtration the better, and with my real psi gauge (not the OEM idiot gauge) I know that my lube isn't sacrificed.

 

[rbattelle]

Measuring the pressure on only one side of the filter won't tell you the oil flow rate. You must have the pressure differential across the filter. My bet is the 15 micron filter has a larger pressure drop than the 25 micron filter.

Put another way, I can easily build two systems which both have 65 psi at the filter exit, one of which has a flow rate of 0. 01 lbm/s and the other 200 lbm/s (the difference between the two being the flow velocity if we hold area fixed).

Ryan

 

[TimothyLong]

I like filter wars too! Mostly because it generates a lot of good discussion, but I also usually end up learning something new in the process. I think it was about his time last year we had something going on fuel filters and fuel/water separators. That was a pretty good one as I recall. Anyway, during that discussion I did some research on the web and found this: Filters and filtration handbook - Google Books. It's actually excerpts from what appears to be an engineering text book on filtration. Unfortunately, you cannot view the entire book and it looks like the juicy parts are what you can't see. But what you can view provides some good information anyway. This is not light reading by any stretch, so it's not for the faint of heart. To see all the good stuff, especially the part on oil/hydraulic filtration, you'd have to buy the book. The downside to that is that it is $$$ just like a typical college textbook. Amazon has it new for $197, Borders and Barnes & Noble both have it for $220. Pricey, but if one were so inclined it might be a useful reference. Just though I'd throw this out there for anyone who was interested.

 

[HBarlow]

I am not a mechanical engineer or petroleum engineer so I am totally unable to evaluate the quality, effectiveness, or durability of an oil filter.

It makes sense to me to buy the filter manufacturered by and recommended by the company who builds the engine, stakes their business reputation and future on its reliability and durablilty, and backs the warranty.

I don't care if some prefer to adapt a roll of toilet paper in a coffee can or never change their engine oil or filter. I figure its their money and their right to choose.

I wonder how some of you determine that a Purolator, Amsoil, Donaldson, or Pep Boys filter is "better" than a Fleetguard.

 

[AH64ID]

Measuring the pressure on only one side of the filter won't tell you the oil flow rate. You must have the pressure differential across the filter. My bet is the 15 micron filter has a larger pressure drop than the 25 micron filter.

Put another way, I can easily build two systems which both have 65 psi at the filter exit, one of which has a flow rate of 0. 01 lbm/s and the other 200 lbm/s (the difference between the two being the flow velocity if we hold area fixed).

Ryan

I am measuring pressure on the opposite side of the block from the filter, and if I have 2-3x, or more, pressure than required I have enough flow. Also the oil pump has a 75psi bypass built in that when psi exceeds 75psi it puts oil back into the sump, I can see 82 psi when cold, so the filter flows more than enough. .

And I disagree with your statement on the systems. The systems would have to be of difference size/volume since pressure = flow x restriction. So if you have the same pressure and different flow you have to have different restrictions.

I wonder how some of you determine that a Purolator, Amsoil, Donaldson, or Pep Boys filter is "better" than a Fleetguard.

I know how I determined that Amsoil/Donaldson (same filter on our trucks) is better, but other than that filter I am in the Stratapore boat, they are great filters, much better than a Mopar filter... but they aren't the best (but there is nothing wrong with them).

But I will admit that I don't have a single Fleetguard filter on my truck, in all 5 of the spin-on filters I have there are companies that make superior products(2x Baldwin, 1x Cat, 1x Amsoil, 1x Donaldson). Thats not to say the Fleetguard are crap, just not as efficient at filtering.