Oil pump housing failure, probable rebuild.

[AH64ID]

On my way to elk camp I developed a whine from the engine. I presumed it was the vacuum pump failing and removed the belt to install my non-vacuum pump belt. While the belt was off I started the motor to verify the noise was belt driven, it wasn't, pointing to a gear noise. Due to my remote location I drove the truck 15 miles to camp, 45 miles closer than town. I shut the truck down and waited. Two days later I started the truck and the noise was present instantly and got much louder when the oil pressure came up, I have a real gauge. This further led me, and my mechanic, the believe it was the gear train. We decided I should have it towed, and my insurance covered the tow (what a PITA) 255 miles to the shop.



The truck got delivered yesterday and the mechanic got the timing cover off today, and it's amazing I made it to camp. The oil pump housing broke right where the idler gear is. The broken housing caused the gear to contact the housing and allowed the gear to run crooked and damage the crank gear. Somehow the cam gear also has a broken tooth, probably from a piece of the broken housing contacting the gears.



The oil filter was full of metal, some of which was copper colored. The magnet in the pan had some metal on it, but not overly fuzzy.



The big questions are how much metal got thru the filer? I run a 15um filter vs the OEM 40um filter.



How much contaminated oil splashed up on the crank and cylinders while I was driving after the failure? I probably put about 45-60 minutes of run time on it from when I heard the noise. Before hearing the noise I was doing 30-50 on a dirt road with mud tires, the noise could have been masked for several miles.



What else is damaged that we cannot see?





So, what to do!?



Do I have the broken pump and cam gear replaced and hope nothing was damaged? The crank gear is pitted and damaged, but not to the complete point of mandatory replacement.



Do I have the engine pulled, and fix all the broken gears?



Do I rebuild it since it's out and the crank is out.



I have 93k miles and 2800 hours on the motor, surely no where near soon enough for this kind of failure. I bought a Cummins because they don't this!!



Have any of you seen this before? My mechanic hasn't.



Sorry, no photos yet. I wasn't thinking about that when I got to the shop.



On a positive note I had a great week with my dad and brother, and filled my elk and deer tags.

 

[cerberusiam]

Ouch!!! That is one of the few failures I have heard of that could trash the entire engine. All the gears on the front of the engine for sure, the crank gear has to have been stressed. Even at 15 um what has those small pieces done to the bearings and for how long? Don't think you can take the chance of siezing a rod bearing in the areas you frequent. Running up down roads in developed areas is one thing, jumping off into the boonies is another whole thing with ANY suspect problems. I think you at least have to put bearings in it and check the crank for any pitting.



Sorry for your luck on that. Definitely not a usual occurence.

 

[mwilson]

I would remove the bearing caps from the rods and mains to see if the steel passed through the oil galleys. If so then it also went everywhere else. The camshaft does not have bearings, only 1 bushing in the front so the steel would chew into the block.



If there is no damage to the crank bearings I would not hesitate to repair it. If there is damage and/or steel specs in the bearings I would short block it at the least. It is almost impossible with normal methods to get that material out of every nook and crannie of an engine block.



It does not sound like you lost oil pressure at any point and you highly increased your odds by having it towed. Good call.



That is not a normal failure and I am sorry to hear that it happened as you really do take care of your stuff.



Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

Somehow the cam gear also has a broken tooth, probably from a piece of the broken housing contacting the gears.

My guess is the broken cam tooth caused the mishap from the get go, not that it helps any.



Nick

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks guys.

Pretty much I know what needs to be checked. It needs to be pulled so the crank gear can be changed and the crank inspected. With it out that far I am most likely going to switch to 03-04 style pistons and nozzles. It may not be necessary, but with the motor out I want them changed.

Otherwise I agree with what you said Mike on the rebuild.

I don't have any plans to add more power, so nothing needs to be done to the head if there is no damage.

My guess is the broken cam tooth caused the mishap from the get go, not that it helps any.

Nick

The cam gear doesn't contact the oil pump idler gear, and there is no where near enough damage to the crank gear to have caused any issues to the idler gear.

Unless the broken cam gear tooth got wedged into the crank/idler gear, but the gears on the idler gear and crank don't show that kind of damage.

It's a mystery/speculation at this point, and maybe a teardown will provide more answers.

 

[mwilson]

Please provide your ESN or e-mail it to me and I will see if a bare block is available just for fun.



-- email address removed --



Mike.

 

[AH64ID]

email sent.

 

[mwilson]

That didn't work so well. I had run into this before but hoped it had been changed.



They do not sell the block like they used to. It changes up to a short block, Part # 4943106RX. That comes with the block, pistons, rods, cooler nozzles, crankshaft, camshaft, cam and crank gears. The factory in Indiana does have one on hand.



Price is up to your distributor, it should sell for right around $4500. 00 exchange. This does have a core charge with it of $1920. 00.



At least you have one alternative now or if nothing else a cost to reference.



Mike.

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks Mike.

I really hope the block isn't damaged.

Out of curiosity do you have the ESN for a QSB480?

The motor should be out this week.

For sure I am going to end up with early CR pistons and nozzles, and I am considering a different cam from Hamilton while it's apart.

 

[sag2]

Are you dying to get into the engine and make some changes, or do you just want to get it back running again? Unless you want to make the changes I would pull a rod bearing or two. If they look OK, or even marginal I would repair the front end and at worst put some rod bearings in it and drive it. Splash oil is not going to hurt much, it is the small stuff that got through the filter that might have done some damage.

 

[AH64ID]

I am in-between those two, but have a hard time not freshening it up if it comes out.

There are some things to do when it's out that are a little more than a freshen, but again worth it if it comes apart.

 

[NIsaacs]

Any updates?

Nick

 

[AH64ID]

The machine shop has the head/block/crank/damper/flywheel/pistons/rods/etc. They will hopefully be done with the machining and balancing next week, and then hopefully reassembly the week of the 2nd.

The new cam, springs, pushrods, and injectors are all here.

Once it's bolted back together I am going to paint the block, and then she goes back in.

I am having a hard time picking a coolant. The radiator is being flushed, the block is obviously clean, and I can easily flush the heater core so I will be able to run any coolant I want. I was looking at the new 10 year stuff from coolant, but it's more than 2x the cost of 5 year G-05. Fleetguard ES Complete needs maintenance at 3 years, so is it worth it? The shop uses Delvac Heavy Duty, but I cannot find a service life on it and it takes SCA's, so ??? Really I am not sure there isn't anything better, and lower maintenance, than the G-05. I will look into the ELC from Chevron/Cat a little more, but I know some manufacturers are saying it's causing long term damage.

 

[Bob4x4]

Sounds like it will be making a few more ponies in it's new configuration and doing it even smoother and more efficient than before.Should be nice.

 

[AH64ID]

I'm not after anymore ponies, thou they will be easy to make. I plan to cut the fuel of the BBi's back to where I am at ~425 rwhp still. This will give me a nice short injection duration, allow me to run less than 23K psi, and all the benefits that are associated with that. It should be pretty darn smooth!

I plan to jump on the dyno in March to check a few things on the tune.

 

[rscurtis]

See my reply to your earlier post. It's expensive, but it's a one-time expense.

 

[NIsaacs]

It's a mystery/speculation at this point, and maybe a teardown will provide more answers.

Any more info on why the pump broke? Also what is the advantage of the QSB480 pistons?

Nick

 

[AH64ID]

The timing case fractured, and the pieces took out the gears as gravity pulled them towards the pan.

The QSB480 pistons are the 03-04 style, which is stronger than the 04.5-07 style. On top of that they are double heat treated and 30% stronger than the standard 03-04/marine piston.

 

[NIsaacs]

The timing case fractured,

Any idea why? Where would the stress come from?

Will the QSB480 pistons fit a 1st or 2nd gen?

Nick

 

[AH64ID]

They will "fit", but are designed for the 143 deg HPCR injector.

I don't know if there was ever a VP QSB, or a high enough hp one to get special pistons. Same thing with a 12V, I know they had 12v marine motors, just not sure if they had better pistons.


As for the timing case it must have flexed, there was no evidence of over-torque or other issues with installation. It's a pretty bizarre fracture for sure. There is also a big dent in the oil pan, and at this point all we can assume is they are related somehow.