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Oil roll call- older engines only please.

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Changing oil too soon is bad??

The oil choices aren’t as clear cut as it once was.
Just looking to get some data on what oil were all using in our 5.9’s.
I’d like to establish what we’re buying either off the shelf or ordering through a distributor.

Lately I’ve just stuck to Wal Mart, or the chains and the best deal I can get. Obviously I’ve been staying away from the lightweight oils, like what’s billed for use in the EcoDiesel.

I just got in from my fall oil drop (a bit late) and this time I used Valvoline PB that’s rated CES20086. I think I paid $11.97 a jug.
Am I correct in thinking that CES20081 would be equal to CI-4, and would it be worth searching out? Is anyone able to find any?
TIA!
 
The oil choices aren’t as clear cut as it once was.
Just looking to get some data on what oil were all using in our 5.9’s.
I’d like to establish what we’re buying either off the shelf or ordering through a distributor.

Lately I’ve just stuck to Wal Mart, or the chains and the best deal I can get. Obviously I’ve been staying away from the lightweight oils, like what’s billed for use in the EcoDiesel.

I just got in from my fall oil drop (a bit late) and this time I used Valvoline PB that’s rated CES20086. I think I paid $11.97 a jug.
Am I correct in thinking that CES20081 would be equal to CI-4, and would it be worth searching out? Is anyone able to find any?
TIA!

For years after oil got so expensive I bought what was on sale, auto parts store brand and name brand. For the past year I have been using Travelers, way cheaper all the time, than others on sale. $7.60 per gallon the last time. I use Walmart for my gassers. I don't know anything about the technical specs but I can look tomorrow.
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I've consistently had the best UOA numbers on Lucas 15w-40 CI-4, I just order it from Summit. It has CES20078, 77, and 76 ratings. From what I can tell reading the cummins literature 20078 is CI-4.

Maybe somewhat ironic but my worst two UOA's were on Valvoline PB 5W-40 syn CK-4.

I'm sure you'll get a boatload of opinions on this one but I'm going to stick with the oil that keeps MY engine happy.;)
 
The oil choices aren’t as clear cut as it once was.
Just looking to get some data on what oil were all using in our 5.9’s.
I’d like to establish what we’re buying either off the shelf or ordering through a distributor.

Lately I’ve just stuck to Wal Mart, or the chains and the best deal I can get. Obviously I’ve been staying away from the lightweight oils, like what’s billed for use in the EcoDiesel.

I just got in from my fall oil drop (a bit late) and this time I used Valvoline PB that’s rated CES20086. I think I paid $11.97 a jug.
Am I correct in thinking that CES20081 would be equal to CI-4, and would it be worth searching out? Is anyone able to find any?
TIA!
Since 1999: Rotella T4 15W40 from 1000 miles to 39K Miles

Started seeing Rotella Synthetics on the
shelves around 2002:
Two oil changes using T5 Synthetic Blend which at
the time was 10W40 - 39K mikes to 46K with the
intention of
having a clean engine to switch to:

Rotella T6 5W40 Synthetic and have been using since
46K miles to the current 259K miles.

Michael
 
For years after oil got so expensive I bought what was on sale, auto parts store brand and name brand. For the past year I have been using Travelers, way cheaper all the time, than others on sale. $7.60 per gallon the last time. I use Walmart for my gassers. I don't know anything about the technical specs but I can look tomorrow.View attachment 109803

I see the Napa filter box, but that looks like a Wix part number to me.
 
I've run Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 in all my 5.9's, I've never had an odd oil analysis or an oil related failure.

Wall Mart and Amazon go back and forth as to who has it cheapest. I can usually pick it up approx $12/gal when I need it.
 
I see the Napa filter box, but that looks like a Wix part number to me.
NAPA Gold are made by Wix.

I’ve used Schaeffer Supreme 7000 for the past 350K. Standard Rotella 15W40 before that. I buy the Schaeffer from a friend that builds Legends race car motors, basically Yamaha FJ1200 motors, and that’s what he puts in them.
 
I’ve been running Amsoil AME CI-4+ 15w-40 in my motor and getting getting great UOA’s.

CJ oil wasn’t ever well thought of or respected, but I’ve heard lots of good things about CK oil. CI was still fairly available due to the dislike of CJ, but if CK is as good as reported I wonder if CI oils will go away.

This change, last Monday, I went with Amsoil DME 15w-40 CK. I’ll do a UOA next year and see how it’s doing.

The DME has some properties I like over the AME, and I’ve seen some great UOA’s from it on newer 6.7’s.

Internally the ISB is relatively unchanged over the years, so Cummins doesn’t appear to be worries about longevity with current oil specs.

63B729AA-D7A6-4BC9-87FC-705110B8EF5F.jpeg
 
Yes, this is primarily my concern. There aren’t many flat tapper engines around anymore.

Stop in a place the rebuilds Cummins engines and look at the camshafts in the scrap bin. You won't feel so good about modern oil specs anymore after seeing them. Cummins doesn’t appear to be worried AKA: Did enough make it out of warranty so we don't need to worry? How about that 6 month oil change time limit?

In the past two years I have run across two wiped lobe roller cams. Buddy's 3.9 V6 (250K miles) and now my hot rod 6.2 GM diesel (~70K miles). Due to gapless rings I used the engine was spotless as far as soot you would normally find in a 6.2. Rumor has it that cam failures are worse than crank failures. Maybe so as the only thing I am reusing off the long block is 1 non-cracked bare head on the 6.2. The 3.9 V6 may have used the crankshaft from the longblock.

IMG_20181124_215101706.jpg


IMG_20181124_215130537.jpg
 
Stop in a place the rebuilds Cummins engines and look at the camshafts in the scrap bin. You won't feel so good about modern oil specs anymore after seeing them.

That’s alarming!
The only answer I have is that I don’t see much on the TDR about valve lash being too far out. I’m guilty that I have never had my cover off yet in 4800 hours.
That cam you show looks like it got hot too. What an eye opener!
 
Wayne, do you see any suspected oil related failures in your line of work?

I just got my latest sample back running conventional CK4 and it was very favorable as expected - but not an older engine so I won't clog up your thread with it.
 
Wow! That cam got HOT.

I just got my latest sample back running conventional CK4 and it was very favorable as expected - but not an older engine so I won't clog up your thread with it.

If it is favorable in a 6.7 with, generally, harsher conditions due to EGR and regen, it should be better in a 5.9.

At least that’s my theory :)
 
Wayne, do you see any suspected oil related failures in your line of work?

Not really. I’m not privy to the bulk oil we get, but I understand it to be basic Delvac 15/40. Our PM cycle is a bit overbearing being based on days primarily and operating time/ mileage secondary, so our oil gets dumped often. We use good filters too. Our oldest MP7’s are getting to the 15,000 hour mark and are unopened- save for fuel and cooling system issues.
 
Wow! That cam got HOT.



If it is favorable in a 6.7 with, generally, harsher conditions due to EGR and regen, it should be better in a 5.9.

At least that’s my theory :)


I agree with you. I've sampled every other oil change from new in my '07 and probably the last 300K or so on the old '04.5. My samples from the beginning would have been CI then CJ and now CK. I don't have those reports in front of me at the moment, but I have never noticed a huge swing in any of the reported wear metals, etc. on either truck in the transition between the different oils over the years. I'm no expert, but I would assume that if the oil formulation changes would have had a real effect on engine wear, you would have seen something in those reports.
 
JR, Thanks for your input. I thought the light new oils were not good for the 5.9’s


By "light" are you referring to 10w30?
I've got an owner's manual from a 2015 QSB6.7 which accepts the use of 10w30 in certain ambient temps, but it MUST be a CK4 spec. The FA4 spec oils which are geared towards fuel economy/GHG generally have a HTHS of below 3.2cp and are a no go for the ISB/QSB engines.
It is my understanding this is the main difference between CK4 and FA4 - HTHS.
All that being said I still use 15w40 in the current CK4 spec.
 
The TDR never fully explained why Shell reformulated the CJ-4 oil after it came out. You bet fleet managers are on top of the oil companies as we all go through the EPA pain that is at odds with engine life via past proven oil technology.

Regardless this older engine, 6.2, used a lot of the Shell oil before and after the reformulation. Older engine context: emissions life of 50,000 miles and GM had to put a 100K warranty on the "throwaway" 6.5's to sell them. By the owners manual: 2500 mile oil changes for HD use with 3000 mile oil samples screaming "don't go the extra 500 miles". We have had very good luck in the past with fleets and Shell products, but, this was before CJ-4.

Interesting observation on the cam getting hot. The camera (flash?) brings a blue out, but, it's just a wear shine in person. I will have to look at it from a getting hot perspective.

Now I will say filters are more important than oil selection. However oil has limits and it's expensive via piston scuffing and wiped cams when you find the limits. Are the limits easier to find today esp. towing on "The Real Highway IN Hell" with extreme 121F degree summer temps? Arizona is too small to have a company reformulate engine oil. (Yeah, Small: Just look at battery life almost always failing in the 3 year warranties at 1-2 years due to heat.) -40 Cold is the other extreme, yes.

The engine shop that rebuilt/replaced my 5.9 engine paid me cold hard cash for my old camshaft because they needed it. I really need to ask Hamilton Cams about the discontinued 110# springs of theirs as they went to lighter springs. Yes some of my UOA have come back with (new cam break in additive) 'zinc so high that this shouldn't be on the road'.
 
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